# \<--- Republicans - the wilderness is this way (turn left) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141 "2013-01-23T19:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/21 "2013-01-24T16:03:17Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > **\<— Republicans - the wilderness is this way (turn left)** I think you mean, **“Republicans - the wilderness is this way (turn right) —\>.”** ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/22 "2013-01-24T17:54:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think you mean, **“Republicans - the wilderness is this way (turn right) —\>.”** Well, I guess I meant that they could head to the wilderness on the left to reflect and change, then come back. If they go to the wilderness further to the right, that will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/23 "2013-01-24T19:01:08Z")
> [@Elixson](#): > > The Dems have a real problem of their own: the enormous debt built up over the past four years to which they are irrevocably tied. Only in Foxworld. They tried their damnedest with that last fall and you know how well that worked. The reality-based polls all showed the public to blame the economy mostly on Bush, not Obama. > [@](#): > > The Republicans might ought to “let it hang out” in 2016 and heighten the contradictions with someone like Rand Paul. Yes, let’s hope they do exactly that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/24 "2013-01-24T19:09:15Z")
> [@Elixson](#): > > The Republicans might ought to “let it hang out” in 2016 and heighten the contradictions with someone like Rand Paul. But he threatened to fire Hillary Clinton from SoS if he’s elected POTUS! Do we want someone with that sort of terrible power? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/25 "2013-01-24T21:10:35Z")
> [@Elixson](#): > > The Republicans might ought to “let it hang out” in 2016 and heighten the contradictions with someone like Rand Paul. We’ve already had one low-wattage scion of a prominent political family in the White House during my lifetime, we really can’t afford another. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/26 "2013-01-24T21:45:42Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > We’ve already had one low-wattage scion of a prominent political family in the White House during my lifetime, we really can’t afford another. I think you do the Pauls too much credit; they don’t rate comparison with the Bushes as a “prominent political family.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/27 "2013-01-25T06:32:07Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Of those, ending farm subsidies and legalising marijuana are the only ones which enjoy a majority of support and Republicans oppose ending subsidies for large farms to a greater degree than Democrats, while Democrats oppose ending subsidies to small farms to a greater degree than Republicans ([cite](http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/602.php)). Ending subsidies to both would actually alienate a substantial segment of their base and galvanise opposition to them. I support the GOP taking these positions not because of their popularity but because they are constructive policies, and also if one party were to strongly push on these issues, it would help galvanize and educate public opinion. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said abolishing farm subsidies but rather eliminating all but the most minimal ones. While numbers ares slightly different, solid Republican and Democratic majorities oppose it for large farms. Plus while this may lose the GOP large portions of the farm vote in the short term it would gain support from suburban swing voters and other moderates concerned about spending. > [@](#): > > Far more Democrats than Republicans support the [legalisation of weed](http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/record-high-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx), so again, that’s an issue where they’d lose considerable support from their base. I know which is why this is an issue where Republicans can outflank the Democrats much as Nixon did regarding going to China. And opponents of marijuana legalization are less concerned about the issue than its proponents-very few in the GOP base is going to abandon the party over this while many marijuana proponents will back the GOP (especially young nonvoters). > [@](#): > > Obama supports the [building of nuclear power](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23poll.html?_r=0) plants despite receiving only plurality support on the issue. Obama has not been pushing the public on the issue but practically doing it on the sly for fear of angering a large portion of the Democratic base. > [@](#): > > [Education and the social programs](http://www.gallup.com/poll/145790/americans-oppose-cuts-education-social-security-defense.aspx) are very popular. Foreign aid less so - if itemised and expenditure listed, I’d assume military aid would receive the least support and humanitarian aid to third world countries at least a plurality. I should have added cutting military spending too. And many of the proposed savings in Social Security and so forth are not cuts but rather measures like calculating for inflation in a different manner. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Since when is the GOP pro-marijuana-legalization? Ironically a lot of the paleocon types who defend it on States’ Right grounds-the most obvious example is Ron Paul. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or against farm subsidies? See above. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/28 "2013-01-25T08:58:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I should have added cutting military spending too. And many of the proposed savings in Social Security and so forth are not cuts but rather measures like calculating for inflation in a different manner. Clandestine cuts and unnecessary to boot. Senator Sanders has railed against chained CPI for too long for the House to slip it through unnoticed. If the Republicans were concerned about preserving the future of Social Security (and the economy), they’d eliminate the payroll tax cap. They’re more concerned about minimising the tax burden on the richest Americans. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/29 "2013-01-25T20:14:51Z")
There’s plenty of speculation in this thread about what the Republicans will do next. Let’s sift it against [what GOP chief Reince Priebus said](http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/politics/rnc-priebus/index.html) to CNN yesterday: > [@](#): > > Priebus is developing a political plan he hopes, in the near term, will re-energize his party in time for the 2014 midterm elections, while also developing a long-term strategy to compete among key demographic voting blocs – Hispanic, Asian, African-American – that broke so heavily Democratic in November. > > To hear Priebus tell it, the goal is two-tiered: restructure the party on a tactical level to match the sophisticated and data-driven efforts of the Obama campaign, and create a communications plan to sell the GOP’s message to voters it failed to connect with in 2012. This tells me the Republicans do not see their position on issues as a problem; rather, they need a better “communications plan” and they need to have the GOP equivalent of ACORN. > [@](#): > > “I think you are seeing a lot of movement from our party on these issues,” said Priebus, who said outreach has already begun. “A lot of it, I tell you, was tone. You know, it wasn’t necessarily the policy on immigration, it was what is coming out of your mouth.” > \<…\> > He specifically mentioned a comment by Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who suggested illegal immigrants might “self-deport” and leave the country willingly. > > “When you talk about stuff of self-deportation, it is probably not the best place to start,” Priebus said. > > Still, Priebus said he believes that Republicans, not Democrats, better represent the ideals and goals of all voters, including minorities who turned out in droves to re-elect the president. THis IMO seems to assume this “tone” was just a bad PR decision. There’s a reason why Romney pushed “self-deportation”–he was pandering to a GOP base who didn’t trust his purity. Anyway, I wonder if the real reason for this "two-tiered strategy is to keep running the grift on their rich donors: > [@](#): > > It’s an overwhelming task and it’s going to cost money, lots of money. > > “I’ve been meeting with donors since the election in November,” Priebus said. “I would say I am pleasantly surprised how quickly the donors who have given so much are ready to build a party that is a year-round operation.” It will be funny to see–after an election that represents a complete waste of money on clowns like Karl Rove–if the billionaires fall for it again. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/30 "2013-01-25T23:06:31Z")
> [@Elixson](#): > > Why shouldn’t the GOP turn “right” instead of “left?” > > Since Reagan, Republican candidates have been an assortment of milquetoasts nominally described as “conservative” but lacking any gumption to really take the fight to the Dems. Last time out, they nominated Romney whose health care initiative in Mass was the model for “Obamacare,” which sparked the GOP taking of the House in 2010. Do you really think that a real conservative (Santorum?) would have gotten more votes than Romney? > [@](#): > > The Dems have a real problem of their own: the enormous debt built up over the past four years to which they are irrevocably tied. The Republicans might ought to “let it hang out” in 2016 and heighten the contradictions with someone like Rand Paul. You mean the massive rise in interest rates and inflation that has been just around the corner for the past four years? Everyone remembers who turned the Clinton surplus into a deficit. The fact is, except for rabble rousing, the debt doesn’t affect many people at the moment. I’ll echo everyone else to say, make my day, nominate Rand Paul. His father did so well, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/31 "2013-01-25T23:28:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Perhaps I shouldn’t have said abolishing farm subsidies but rather eliminating all but the most minimal ones. While numbers ares slightly different, solid Republican and Democratic majorities oppose it for large farms. Plus while this may lose the GOP large portions of the farm vote in the short term it would gain support from suburban swing voters and other moderates concerned about spending. How is the party which opposes the inheritance tax on the bogus notion that it will hurt farmers get behind something which really will hurt farmers? This is an excellent example of why the Romney/Ryan cut the loopholes plan was such a lie. Those who get money for this really care - nearly no one else does. That is why we still have it. > [@](#): > > I know which is why this is an issue where Republicans can outflank the Democrats much as Nixon did regarding going to China. And opponents of marijuana legalization are less concerned about the issue than its proponents-very few in the GOP base is going to abandon the party over this while many marijuana proponents will back the GOP (especially young nonvoters). The Libertarians will be all for it, but the major part of their base who are “values voters” won’t be. In any case if public opinion moves on this issue, the Dems can get behind it very quickly. SSM is something they should get behind much faster - but it won’t happen because of the values voters. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/32 "2013-01-25T23:52:05Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Libertarians will be all for it, but the major part of their base who are “values voters” won’t be. In any case if public opinion moves on this issue, the Dems can get behind it very quickly. SSM is something they should get behind much faster - but it won’t happen because of the values voters. See post #10. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/33 "2013-01-25T23:55:19Z")
> [@Elixson](#): > > Why shouldn’t the GOP turn “right” instead of “left?” Because, of last year’s field of GOP primary candidates, Romney was the only one who ever would have had a whisper of a prayer of coming in within 5 digits of Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/34 "2013-01-26T00:05:24Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Just to drive this point home: [Ronald Reagan supported the Brady Bill.](http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/us/gun-control-bill-backed-by-reagan-in-appeal-to-bush.html) Brady took a bullet for him. How crass would Reagan have to be to NOT support the bill? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/35 "2013-01-26T00:05:40Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Anyway, I wonder if the real reason for this "two-tiered strategy is to keep running the grift on their rich donors: > > It will be funny to see–after an election that represents a complete waste of money on clowns like Karl Rove–if the billionaires fall for it again. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. “A fool and his money are soon parted” is a proverb for a reason; billionaires just have so much that they can keep losing it and still be rich. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Brady took a bullet for him. How crass would Reagan have to be to NOT support the bill? He’d have to be a typical modern Republican. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/36 "2013-01-26T12:21:34Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > This tells me the Republicans do not see their position on issues as a problem;… I agree with this here. They can blame Romney and a whole host of things for losing the election, but the simple, unfettered and inconvenient issue is that their positions are not finding favor among the majority of voters nationwide these days. All their answers and proposals and solutions seem to require waiting to see what Obama is going to say or do next, and then taking the position opposite that, whatever it is, even if it makes no sense. They need to come out with a narrative that pushes the whole fiscally conservative meme with proven results (it they exist) independent of what the White House is doing, show that it is an alternative strategy, and lay off the social issues, as they will get continue to get beaten by the Dem’s more moderate and tolerant message there. This will mean letting go of long-cherished belief systems on taxes, and easing back to the more widely held positions on SSM, women’s rights issues, global warming, etc. They can still offer an alternative view of economic issues that may resonate with a lot of people, without their positions on social issues dragging them down. They also need to find a good spokesperson who is states-person-like and intelligent and shows a smart willingness to compromise when needed, as well as repudiate those in their ranks who say and do stupid shit rather than defend them. Will they do it? Not likely as long as they embrace factions that punish the moderates who may be smart and articulate enough to get that alternative message across. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/37 "2013-01-27T19:56:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Brady took a bullet for him. How crass would Reagan have to be to NOT support the bill? And Bush Sr. famously, and publicly, renounced his NRA membership. This no compromise and guns thing is a very new thing to the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/38 "2013-01-27T22:38:28Z")
The Right’s ace-in-the-hole is taxes. They will live and die on that. “We” want you to keep your money, “They” want to take your money. It sounds simplistic, but it’s quite effective. (Until right leaning governor’s realize that they need federal assistance for the hurriane that just ravaged the state…) But it will be supposed fiscal responsibility that Republicans will hawk, pun intended. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/39 "2013-01-27T23:01:14Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > This tells me the Republicans do not see their position on issues as a problem; rather, they need a better “communications plan” and they need to have the GOP equivalent of ACORN. Upon review of some of the other threads on gerrymandering and vote suppression, it becomes clear that the GOP feels that it needs the equivalent of _ACORN as perceived by GOP partisans_ (i.e. a ruthlessly amoral election-stealing machine). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141/40 "2013-01-27T23:08:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Libertarians will be all for it, but the major part of their base who are “values voters” won’t be. In any case if public opinion moves on this issue, the Dems can get behind it very quickly. SSM is something they should get behind much faster - but it won’t happen because of the values voters. If the GOP had developed enough of a spine a few election cycles ago to tell the Talibornagains “Forget this ‘stinging you along’ crap – we’re telling you flat out you aren’t going to get any of the stuff you want, but you’re gonna suck it up and vote for us anyway to keep the Democrats from shifting public policy even further left”, they’d be in a position to do so. In reality, they’re stuck – the tiger is charging headlong for a cliff, and the elephant can’t figure out how to dismount. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-the-wilderness-is-this-way-turn-left/648141.md?page=3)