# Republicans think you need $1 trillion worth of platinum in a $1 trillion face value platinum coin **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642 "2013-01-09T16:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/41 "2013-01-10T09:01:53Z")
It doesn’t hurt to [be prepared.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_r9lJ9BuMjI/TwEjK7fDBFI/AAAAAAAAGpE/PAlzTbYsqEo/s640/gp%2B1) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/42 "2013-01-10T10:04:12Z")
I realize that this isn’t a serious discussion, but the NRCC’s tweet presumably draws upon Kevin Drum’s [observation](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/can-treasury-department-create-platinum-t-bill) in Mother Jones that the text of the law actually only permits the Treasury to issue a platinum “bullion coin” and thus does appear to contemplate that the coin comprise its face value in precious metal. Maybe the OP can explain why Drum is so evidently wrong? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/43 "2013-01-10T11:06:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I realize that this isn’t a serious discussion, but the NRCC’s tweet presumably draws upon Kevin Drum’s [observation](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/can-treasury-department-create-platinum-t-bill) in Mother Jones that the text of the law actually only permits the Treasury to issue a platinum “bullion coin” and thus does appear to contemplate that the coin comprise its face value in precious metal. > > Maybe the OP can explain why Drum is so evidently wrong? Kevin Drum is not a lawyer, and his other arguments why the coin is illegal have already been shot down. So I’m not taking the need to rebut him on this one too seriously. (I hate to dump on Kevin; he’s one of my favorite bloggers, but he’s been really wrong on this one.) The one thing I will point out is that the relationship between our coinage and the value of the metal contained in it has long since been severed. Oldies like me remember when dimes and quarters used to be silver; that ended in the mid-1960s. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/44 "2013-01-10T15:25:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … the relationship between our coinage and the value of the metal contained in it has long since been severed… ended in the mid-1960s. Nitpick: 1981 pennies have more than two cents’ worth of copper. [del]In fact, am I wrong that today’s pennies have more than 1 cent’s worth of zinc?[/del] Disclaimer: Melting down a U.S. coin is probably a federal crime. ETA: Yeah, way wrong. Can’t you even use Google, septi-poo? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/45 "2013-01-10T15:43:02Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Sure, and this leads to an even better situation. Once you have bought the half million or so ounces of platinum you need to make the coin, you basically have all the platinum in the world. Which means you have a monopoly of the platinum market. With no competition, you can then set the selling price of platinum at $1 trillion per ounce. Of course, no one is going to buy platinum at that price but who cares? Because what you do next is to mint a half million $1 trillion platinum coins. And then sir, you are set for life. … OK, I’m in, sounds like a solid plan. When do we start ? I got 50 eurobucks right here. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/46 "2013-01-10T15:48:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yay, false equivalency! The gaffe you’re referencing was a stupid remark from a single backbencher Democratic representative. The stupidity in the OP is by the NRCC, supposedly part of the party leadership. And the Stupid Democrat quote was from close to three years ago, for fuck’s sake. If you’re going to go full tu quoque, is it too much to ask to find someone more recent, and maybe, just maybe, someone talking about the same topic? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/47 "2013-01-10T15:51:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > _thinks for a few hours_ > > **RTFirefly** , my first friend, I am sorry to report that our odds are only one chance in seven. I know I’ve often said that liberals were loony, but this isn’t quite what I had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/48 "2013-01-10T15:55:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yay, false equivalency! The gaffe you’re referencing was a stupid remark from a single backbencher Democratic representative. Johnson was the Regional Whip for the Eighth Region. How is that a “backbencher?” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/49 "2013-01-10T15:56:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Maybe the OP can explain why Drum is so evidently wrong? The same section of law discusses other bullion coins whose denominations pretty clearly don’t have anything to do with the amount (the “one dollar” first lady commemerative coins, for example, have several hundred dollars worth of gold in them). So “bullion coin” in the act clearly doesn’t mean what Drum thinks it means Plus the original intent of the act [was apparently](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/04/michael-castle-unsuspecting-godfather-of-the-1-trillion-coin-solution/) to raise money through seigniorage, which doesn’t make any sense if the coin is limited in value to the cost of its precious metals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/50 "2013-01-10T16:00:07Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > … OK, I’m in, sounds like a solid plan. When do we start ? I got 50 eurobucks right here. Isn’t this coin going to be denominated in [Ameros](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero)? Might as well go full teabag with this thing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/51 "2013-01-10T16:12:25Z")
> [@Wilson](#): > > Thankfully, Nickleback is Canadian, so we don’t have to worry about them becoming president. What if we get them a Hawaiian birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/52 "2013-01-10T16:50:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Johnson was the Regional Whip for the Eighth Region. How is that a “backbencher?” There are currently 200 Democrats in the House. According to the most recent leadership [information](http://democrats.rules.house.gov/archives/rs20499.pdf) I can find, as many as 112 Democrats can be some kind of “whip”. Regional whips are the lowest level, and each of the 12 regions have two whips. So Johnson was one of two whips for his region, the lowest level of whip in a structure where the majority of Democrats could conceivably be some kind of “whip”. Yep, he’s a major player all right. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/53 "2013-01-10T17:01:42Z")
So, the stupid idea here is to mint the trillion dollar coin out of $1 trillion in platinum (and put Obama’s face on it while sinking the Titanic), but not the coin itself? That’s the good part of the idea? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/54 "2013-01-10T17:54:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I realize that this isn’t a serious discussion, but the NRCC’s tweet presumably draws upon Kevin Drum’s [observation](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/can-treasury-department-create-platinum-t-bill) in Mother Jones that the text of the law actually only permits the Treasury to issue a platinum “bullion coin” and thus does appear to contemplate that the coin comprise its face value in precious metal. > > Maybe the OP can explain why Drum is so evidently wrong? Maybe Harvard Law professor [Laurence Tribe](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2013/01/harvard_law_school_professor_l042276.php) can: > [@](#): > > The statute clearly does authorize the issuance of trillion-dollar coins. First, the statute itself doesn’t set any limit on coin value. Second, other clauses of 31 USC §5112 do set such limits, but §5112(k)—dealing with platinum coins—does not. So expressio unius strengthens the inference that there isn’t any limit here. > > Of course, Congress probably didn’t have trillion-dollar coins in mind, but there’s no textual or other legal basis for importing this probable intention into the statute. What 535 people might have had in their collective “mind” just can’t control the meaning of a law this clear. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/55 "2013-01-10T17:57:09Z")
At least we can all agree that this idea is so gloriously absurd that it simply \*has \*to happen, right? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/56 "2013-01-10T18:05:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Johnson was the Regional Whip for the Eighth Region. How is that a “backbencher?” Well, one might be tempted to classify him as a “backbencher” if one’s first thought upon reading your post was _“WTF is a Regional Whip?”_ Sounds like a minor functionary in the [del]Knights of Columbus[/del] Kiwanis Club (in the KofC he’d probably be called _Bearer of the Minor Plenary Seal_, or something similarly quasi-feudal). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/57 "2013-01-10T18:14:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > At least we can all agree that this idea is so gloriously absurd that it simply \*has \*to happen, right? Yes, the idea of a trillion-dollar coin is absurd. On the other hand, we were already through the looking glass when raising the debt ceiling wasn’t treated as a mere formality as it has for decades. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/58 "2013-01-10T18:21:16Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, the stupid idea here is to mint the trillion dollar coin out of $1 trillion in platinum (and put Obama’s face on it while sinking the Titanic), but not the coin itself? That’s the good part of the idea? 😛 The stupid part of the idea is the suggestion that the government would _need_ $1 trillion worth of platinum in order to mint a $1 trillion platinum coin. The coin itself is the good part of the idea, yes. If a calamity is approaching, and you can prevent the calamity from happening by doing something that would in any other context be totally ridiculous and silly, it becomes a hell of a lot less ridiculous and silly if it would in fact avert the calamity. * * * Since **Tom Tildrum** brought Kevin Drum’s name into it, let me comment on [the one genuinely disturbing (to me, at least) thing Kevin says](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/1-trillion-platinum-coin-horrible-lawless-policy): > [@](#): > > This whole thing is not just a ridiculous idea, it’s a bad idea too. Republicans seem willing to set the country on fire to please their increasingly fever-swampish base, and eventually they’ll pay a price for that at the polls. Sooner than that, they’ll pay a price with the business community. This is a problem that we should work out via politics and public opinion, not by pretending the law allows the president to do anything he wants. I’ll disregard the “not by pretending the law allows the president to do anything he wants” part, because I believe the law allows the President to do what the law says the President can do, not “anything he wants” in which case I’d be advocating that Obama mint a few $1 trillion coins, and use the money to build high-speed rail from coast to coast. What’s offensive and disturbing is Kevin’s apparent belief that the best way to deal with the GOP’s willingness “to set the country on fire to please their increasingly fever-swampish base” is to let them do it, then kick their butts at the polls in 2014. No: the renewed recession (which is the best-case scenario for the failure to raise the ceiling) would damage the lives of millions of people whose situations are still fragile from the _last_ recession and the still-substantial unavailability of jobs. We libruls don’t want to benefit from a catastrophe by having a great 2014 at the polls; _we want to keep the catastrophe from happening_. There are exceptions, I’m sure, but to the vast majority of us lefties, the notion that \*\*(calamity + electoral gains) \> (no calamity + no electoral gains) \*\* is morally abhorrent. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/59 "2013-01-10T18:30:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The stupid part of the idea is the suggestion that the government would _need_ $1 trillion worth of platinum in order to mint a $1 trillion platinum coin. > > The coin itself is the good part of the idea, yes. If a calamity is approaching, and you can prevent the calamity from happening by doing something that would in any other context be totally ridiculous and silly, it becomes a hell of a lot less ridiculous and silly if it would in fact avert the calamity. This. It’s the least bad of a slew of bad options available _to the President_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642/60 "2013-01-10T18:39:30Z")
And, it has the advantage of practically forcing the Beltway media, self-trapped in their false-equivalence bubble, to explain why the President is doing it. If there is no semi-plausible cover story left for the tantrum-throwers afterward, then maybe, just maybe, there will be no repeat of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-think-you-need-1-trillion-worth-of-platinum-in-a-1-trillion-face-value-platinum-coin/646642.md?page=4)