# Republicans to show Michael Moore how bold-faced propaganda is really done **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675 "2004-08-20T05:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/1 "2004-08-20T05:13:53Z")
Roll over Leni Riefenstahl, there’s a new film in town… As [Salon](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/20/chetwynd_bossie/) has reported tonight, there is a hastily made “documentary” in the works called “George W. Bush: The World’s Greatest Cowboy in The Big Picture”. Seems our good friends over at Citizens United, the right-wing group that unsuccessfully sued to stop national advertising of Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11 are trying to pull off the very thing they condemned by creating what appears to be a slobbering kiss to the ass of GW for the first half of the documentary, with the latter half being devoted to slamming Clinton (naturally) & Kerry on such items as the[largely debunked claims](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231) of the not-so Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Already, questions are being asked about whether or not this latest film is legal, especially since the director is creating two films for the Republican convention. > [@](#): > > Ironically, Bossie and Citizens United could find themselves facing the same legal questions they raised about “Fahrenheit 9/11,” when they tried to stop TV advertising for the Moore opus. Their complaint to the FEC alleged that such ads constituted prohibited “electioneering communications” against Bush and violated federal restrictions on “soft money.” Last month the FEC ruled in favor of the film’s distributors because those ads appeared more than four months before the election, during a window when they were permissible. My prediction: First and foremost this movie will suck. And in ways that will suck despite your political affiliation. Anything this rushed, hamfisted and based on already debunked claims can’t be a good thing. It won’t be funny. Say what you will about Moore, but I think most people would at least admit he is a relatively funny guy (cue angry retorts here about how goddamned “funny” he was with BfC). Consequently his films are tempered with some laughs. Given the rushed nature of this film, I doubt they’ll get much laughs in. Angry, hard-core Republicans aren’t the funniest bunch of people you’ll ever meet. See Dennis Miller for example. Better yet, don’t. Consequently the film will be all the more tedious and insufferable. It will get released, straight to video, and many a finger will be wagged over the fact that F 9/11 will have more copies to rent than The Worlds Greatest Cowboy at your local Blockbuster- clearly demonstrating that not only the media is controlled by the liberals, but so are the video stores. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/2 "2004-08-20T06:14:32Z")
Do we get to say this film isn’t a documentary because it’s not objective? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/3 "2004-08-20T06:16:08Z")
> [@seriousart](#): > > Roll over Leni Riefenstahl, there’s a new film in town… > > As [Salon](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/20/chetwynd_bossie/) has reported tonight, there is a hastily made “documentary” in the works called “George W. Bush: The World’s Greatest Cowboy in The Big Picture”. > … > > My prediction: > > First and foremost this movie will suck. And in ways that will suck despite your political affiliation. Anything this rushed, hamfisted and based on already debunked claims can’t be a good thing. I can’t wait to see it sink like a rock. But hey, maybe it’ll make more than **America’s Heart and Soul** , which was billed as the anti-F9/11. It made a grand total of **$314,402** , according the [Box Office Mojo’s documentary page](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=documentary.htm). Hell, even **Porn Star: The Legend of Ron Jeremy** made more than that! ($421,516) Just to remind folks who either care or who will be pissed off by it, **Fahrenheit 9/11** has made $162,328,500.00 worldwide so far. [Cite: Box Office Mojo’s Fahrenheit 9/11 page](http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=fahrenheit911.htm) Of course, it will make many tens of millions more when it’s released on DVD/VHS **OCTOBER 5**. Other excellent documentaries to keep an eye out for, some are in or are coming to theaters, some are on video already: \*\*[The Hunting of the President](http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/) [Outfoxed: Ruput Murdoch’s War on Journalism](http://www.outfoxed.org/) [Uncovered: The Whole Truth about the Iraq War](http://www.truthuncovered.com/) [The Corporation](http://www.thecorporation.tv/)\*\* Also recommended: \*\*[Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election](http://www.unprecedented.org/) [Orwell Rolls in his Grave](http://www.orwellrollsinhisgrave.com/) [Bush’s Brain](http://www.bushsbrain.net/) \*\* Soon to be released: **[Unconstitutional: The War on our Civil Liberties](http://www.unconstitutionalthemovie.org/)** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/4 "2004-08-20T06:27:07Z")
Isn’t there supposed to be a Michael Moore bashing movie coming out sometime? _Michael Moore Hates America_? Whatever happened to that? I can spot that movie’s first lie already. It’s the title. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/5 "2004-08-20T06:27:32Z")
I actually read _Al Franken is a Buck-Toothed Moron_ back in 1996, while I was waiting for my wife in Barnes & Noble. I can almost guarantee that the movie will suck. The Republicans always seem to do this. They don’t seem to realize that they have Rush to deliver fresh commentary for roughly 9 hours a day, five days a week. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/6 "2004-08-20T13:33:36Z")
Michael Moore has always said, publically, that his film is a “satiric documentary.” It’s intended to be funny, and so people can laugh regardless of their political stance. (Sure, some people laugh harder, but c’mon, it’s like John Stewart or Jay Leno making fun of this or that politician.) My suspicion is that these right-wingers will make a serious “documentary” that’s nothing but political diatribe. That won’t attract an audience, except an incestuous one. (“My mother saw it, and my cousin Freddy, and the entire population of Fort Mudge, Georgia…”) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/7 "2004-08-20T14:16:13Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Isn’t there supposed to be a Michael Moore bashing movie coming out sometime? _Michael Moore Hates America_? Whatever happened to that? I can spot that movie’s first lie already. It’s the title. My brother is of the opinion that the film is out to catch Moore using his own tactics (as the filmmakers see them). That is, it’s intentionally hyperbolic, misleading, manipulative, and at times downright dishonest. It’s a parody of Moore’s work that at the same time jabs at Moore’s positions (by interviewing Moore debunkers, happy working Americans, etc). The key note of the film is when the filmmaker fails to get an interview with Moore, just as Moore failed to get an interview in Roger and Me. Me, I kind of doubt it’s so subtle. “Michael Moore Hates America” is something that a right-winger would say with a straight face in this political climate. I think it’ll be a right-wing diatribe that lacks Moore’s humor and skill. Besides “The Daily Show” has already hilariously deflated this film. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/8 "2004-08-20T14:28:06Z")
These guys have no sense of humor? Come on! “World’s Greatest Cowboy”? “The Big Picture”? I’m Rolling On The Floor, Busting A Gut, Pancreas And Various Parts Of The Nether Region, Pissing Off The Cat! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/9 "2004-08-20T16:40:06Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Other excellent documentaries to keep an eye out for, some are in or are coming to theaters, some are on video already: > > [Uncovered: The Whole Truth about the Iraq War](http://www.truthuncovered.com/) > > [The Corporation](http://www.thecorporation.tv/)\*\* > > Also recommended: > > [Orwell Rolls in his Grave](http://www.orwellrollsinhisgrave.com/) Haven’t seen the movies I snipped from the quote above (though I’ve heard truly great things about _Bush’s Brain_), but I can certainly second the recommendation on the first two. The second is more than a bit long-winded and occasionally unfocused, but very informative viewing. And I’m sorry, but I can’t really agree on _Orwell Rolls in His Grave._ While some of it is worthwhile (the interview segments with the former journalist who has become a media watchdog were fascinating), I thought its production values were distractingly amateurish, and the movie spent way too much time obsessing about stuff that provided little or no rhetorical traction (e.g. the 2000 election, the issue of which are handled much better elsewhere). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/10 "2004-08-20T16:41:24Z")
When did Dennis Miller become an “angry, hard-core Republican?” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/11 "2004-08-20T17:57:04Z")
> [@andros](#): > > When did Dennis Miller become an “angry, hard-core Republican?” Ever since the terrorists knocked down the WTC and he lost his funny. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/12 "2004-08-20T18:21:04Z")
And he’s really gone Pubbie? ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/13 "2004-08-20T18:25:22Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Other excellent documentaries to keep an eye out for, some are in or are coming to theaters, some are on video already: > > \*\*[The Hunting of the President](http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/) > \*\* I’d hardly call this **excellent**. It seems like it had worked well as a book, but translating to film, it was one of the dullest things I’ve ever sat through in my entire life. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/14 "2004-08-20T20:05:25Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And he’s really gone Pubbie? Yup. He’s even publically stated that he won’t do jokes against George W. Bush, just because he likes the guy. Which is grounds for automatic loss of his comedian credentials(\*), as any satirist and late-night talk show host knows. (\* = Though some will argue that he never had those to begin with… 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![seriousart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@seriousart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seriousart)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/15 "2004-08-20T20:21:13Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Ever since the terrorists knocked down the WTC and he lost his funny. I read somewhere recently that he claims his political veiws were radically changed after 9/11 and he’s surprised everyone else’s weren’t changed, too. To hear him now he just sounds… bitter and angry (IMHO). Historically, comedians have always faired better when they’ve been anti-establishment. When they’re shilling for The Man, it’s always less funny. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/16 "2004-08-20T20:28:48Z")
> [@andros](#): > > When did Dennis Miller become an “angry, hard-core Republican?” My guess is sometime after his HBO show was cancelled. He’s always had those tendencies but his new MSNBC show is a festering pile of concentrated unfunny. Not doing Bush jokes really eliminates most of the good material and makes you look like a partisan goon. I used to like DM but his MSNBC show sucks. It seems like he’s playing the “asshole talk show host” character from _Joe Dirt_ but without any irony. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/17 "2004-08-20T21:07:15Z")
Bush’s Brain is Karl Rove !! hehe ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/18 "2004-08-21T03:27:14Z")
Thanks for the 411 re Dennis, guys. Fuck. That makes me sad. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/19 "2004-08-21T03:47:11Z")
**Andros** , at first I was sad about Dennis Miller too. He had been a favorite of mine. _Loved_ those rants! But if you watch his new show once or twice, the sad feeling melts into contempt. He isn’t the same man. It is embarrassing. It’s not just his politics. His judgment in general seems to be affected. Who would have the Governor of California as his first guest on his first show? They discussed problems in California. (yawn…) Back to the subject of pubbie docs: I don’t mind propoganda. I just don’t like _dishonest_ propoganda. No lies. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675/20 "2004-08-21T03:52:02Z")
> [@andros](#): > > And he’s really gone Pubbie? There was talk a while back of him actually running for congress as a republican. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-to-show-michael-moore-how-bold-faced-propaganda-is-really-done/260675.md?page=2)