# Republicans want more murders and rapes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2011, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613 "2011-10-24T09:55:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/21 "2011-10-24T15:24:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sure. The fact that the vice-president made a speech _at all_ is reason enough to find fault with it…in some partisan circles. This makes comparing it to speeches from the other side of the fence totally justified if one wishes to know if what he said was ridiculous in and of itself. But no one is complaining just because Biden made a speech. All the criticism is based on the exaggeration and outright falsehoods he included in the speech. So your justification for a _tu quoque_ is not valid. If one wishes to know if what he said was ridiculous in and of itself, you don’t need to compare it to other politicians’ speeches. Just compare it to the facts. If, as it turns out, it is very far from accurate in its assertions, then you know that the speech is ridiculous, and you don’t have to drag in what Republicans say at all. [QUOTE=Jack Batty] The blantant misrepresentation that with fewer cops, crime tends to go up. Yeah, I’m solid with that. [/QUOTE] But, you will notice that Biden’s claims about rapes were false - they did not increase, they decreased. So you are OK with a politician making a false statement, provided his facts are also wrong? _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/22 "2011-10-24T15:28:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But no one is complaining just because Biden made a speech. All the criticism is based on the exaggeration and outright falsehoods he included in the speech. That’s not remotely true. Look at the title of this thread. There is nothing about exagerrated stats. The only over-the-top rhetoric in this whole story is the claim that Biden said that Republicans want you grandmother to get raped. He did not say anything close to that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/23 "2011-10-24T15:42:12Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > The only over-the-top rhetoric in this whole story is the claim that Biden said that Republicans want you grandmother to get raped. Well, no - post #12 has some rather exaggerated rhetoric. > [@](#): > > He did not say anything close to that. Again, Biden made some demonstrably false statements. You apparently have no problem with that. That’s unfortunate, but it seems to be the way the thread has progressed. Czarcasm allegedly wanted to analyse what Biden said. Unfortunately, that analysis showed up Biden’s latest set of whoppers pretty clearly. And so we proceed to the various attempts to change the subject, condemn Republicans for something or other, or otherwise push IOKIADDI as hard as it usually gets pushed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/24 "2011-10-24T16:15:28Z")
Wow! I am once again astounded that a politically motivated statement contains factual misrepresentations. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/25 "2011-10-24T16:17:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are OK with a politician making a false statement, provided his facts are also wrong? > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan OK Biden shouldn’t have said that. Its good to hear that you are so vigilant in pointing out the hyperbolic quotes of Democrats. I assume you were equally vigilant when Pain came with her claims of death panels. A cite of such behavior on your part would be particularly nice. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/26 "2011-10-24T16:27:53Z")
When you make bold statements about the consequences of some facts, it is best, if you are choosing to make these statements boldly, that you make sure that your facts are correct. Mr. Biden’s underlying facts were simply wrong. Not a good debate tactic. It is also not unique to Mr. Biden, or his party. I think errors in statements of fact made by candidates for elective office, or those proposing legislative actions should always be publicly exposed. The implied ad hominem is gratuitous, and of far less importance. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/27 "2011-10-24T16:40:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, no - post #12 has some rather exaggerated rhetoric. I didn’t know I was a part of this story. I sure hope they spell my name right when they quote me on Fox ‘News.’ By the way … I’m still searching for the quote of Biden’s where he said, “Republicans want more murders and rapes.” Can you help out with that one? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/28 "2011-10-24T17:00:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > By the way … I’m still searching for the quote of Biden’s where he said, “Republicans want more murders and rapes.” Can you help out with that one? [He came mighty close here.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxotkX9ZOo&feature=player_embedded) > [@](#): > > Mattera: Do you regret using a rape reference to describe Republican opposition to the president’s bill? > > Biden: I didn’t use it. No, no, no, what I said, let’s get it straight guys. Don’t screw around with me. Let’s get it straight. Listen to me. I said rape was up, three times, in Flint. They’re the numbers, go look at the numbers. Murder’s up, rape is up, burglary’s up, that’s exactly what I said. > > Mattera: And if Republicans don’t pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise? > > Biden: Murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise, all crimes will continue to rise. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/29 "2011-10-24T17:05:52Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [He came mighty close here.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxotkX9ZOo&feature=player_embedded) Is that mighty close to you? Would it be fair to say, Republicans want to obstruct anything the president wants to do, _even if_ it would cause more rape and murders? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/30 "2011-10-24T17:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > “Well let me tell you, it’s not temporary when that 911 call comes in and a woman’s being raped if a cop shows up in time to prevent the rape,” he continued. But that could only happen if… my God. _THE COP IS THE RAPIST!_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/31 "2011-10-24T17:13:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Is that mighty close to you? > > Would it be fair to say, Republicans want to obstruct anything the president wants to do, _even if_ it would cause more rape and murders? Of course not, since the administration hasn’t exactly made their case that this additional spending is a priority. You know, what with rapes being down in Flint, and all. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/32 "2011-10-24T17:27:35Z")
Mr. Moto – reading your Biden interview snippet: The reporter accused Biden of using a ‘rape reference’ to describe ‘Republican opposition to the bill.’ That was utter horse shit on the reporter’s part. That was akin to, “Vice President Biden, have you stopped beating your wife?” He never used a ‘rape reference’; and he certainly did mention the crime as a description of Republican opposition. But if that’s ‘mighty close enough,’ then I’m still wondering why Ron Paul wants poor people to die in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/33 "2011-10-24T17:29:12Z")
How is Biden worse than just about any Republican you could mention? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/34 "2011-10-24T17:39:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As far as I know, _tu quoque_ is never “justified” in a debate. Well the Republicans engaged in _tu quoque_ first, so that makes it okay. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/35 "2011-10-24T17:39:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > The reporter accused Biden of using a ‘rape reference’ to describe ‘Republican opposition to the bill.’ That was utter horse shit on the reporter’s part. So the reference to rapes wasn’t a rape reference. > [@](#): > > He never used a ‘rape reference’; and he certainly did mention the crime as a description of Republican opposition. So he never did it, and he certainly did do it. Ooooookay then… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/36 "2011-10-24T17:49:24Z")
Typo on my part. Obviously, I meant ‘he certainly \*\*didn’t \*\*mention the crime as a description of Republican opposition.’ And using the word ‘rape’ when making a point (as in, here are some crimes I want to talk about, including rape, murder and burglary) certainly is not any sort of rape reference that was used to denigrate the opposition. And if we insist it is, I’ll thank you to stop making rape references when addressing me in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/37 "2011-10-24T17:56:53Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > You’re giving ridiculous assertions a pass because “they’re politicians” and both Left and Right do the same thing. It’s far better to hold each liar / exaggerator / sound-bite-spewing idiot accountable for their ridiculous assertions regardless of politics. There ain’t enough hours in the day… That’s why we have The Daily Show. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/38 "2011-10-24T18:01:26Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Of course not, since the administration hasn’t exactly made their case that this additional spending is a priority. > > You know, what with rapes being down in Flint, and all. Reread my post and try again. The administration is asking for additional funding for police. Republicans want to obstruct anything the administration wants, because Republicans think obstructing the president is worth fewer police on the street. Republicans think the price of fewer police would be more than paid for by the benefit of not giving the administration what they want. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/39 "2011-10-24T18:19:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Well the Republicans engaged in _tu quoque_ first, so that makes it okay. Two quoques don’t make a roque! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613/40 "2011-10-24T18:22:08Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Typo on my part. Obviously, I meant 'he certainly \*\*didn’t \*\*mention the crime as a description of Republican opposition. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Of course, this - > [@](#): > > Mattera: And if Republicans don’t pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise? > > Biden: Murder will continue to rise, rape will continue to rise, all crimes will continue to rise. still constitutes a rape reference. And Biden did stick to his prediction that rape, murder and crime in general, would continue to rise if Republicans didn’t pass the bill. So as far as can be determined, Biden did indeed claim that rapes would continue to increase if Republicans did not support Obama’s jobs bill. But, since we have already established that rapes have not increased, but rather decreased, it seems clear that both Biden’s premise and his conclusion are wrong. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-want-more-murders-and-rapes/600613.md?page=3)