# Republicans' war on transgender people: Omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609 "2022-06-03T02:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/281 "2022-11-17T19:37:40Z")
The Shakespeare play _Twelfth Night_ is also going to be a problem with this new law. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/282 "2022-11-17T19:44:31Z")
And keep in mind that this is not actual law yet, and IMHO, is unlikely to be one. OTOH, it does inform us as to what the bigots want, and how badly they are flailing to get it, so it is useful in that regard. That all said, I do wonder how far this goes, what is a performance, and what is “…a gender identity that is different than the performer’s gender assigned at birth using clothing…”. For instance, could a karaoke bar be declared a sexually oriented business because a ciswoman sings “Sweet Caroline” while wearing pants? Also, not sure if this is new or an update, but their definition of nude “…any portion of the genitals or buttocks…” would make most pools and beaches nude. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/283 "2022-11-17T21:10:45Z")
IIRC (and I studied the play in high school so I may not RC) the play involved an indistinguishable pair of twins, one born male and one born female. Which we know would be fraternal twins, not identical ones. Billy S had a pretty shaky grasp on genetics. I think the play has a lot of problems in general. 😃 (All that being said, I actually like that play quite a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/284 "2022-11-17T21:12:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > IIRC (and I studied the play in high school so I may not RC) the play involved an indistinguishable pair of twins, one born male and one born female. Which we know would be fraternal twins, not identical ones. Billy S had a pretty shaky grasp on genetics. You can have siblings who look a lot like each other without them being identical twins. Or even fraternal twins. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/285 "2022-11-17T21:15:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You can have opposite sex siblings who look a lot like each other without them being identical twins. Sure, but I believe the idea was that they were _completely_ identical despite being different sexes. Here is a line from the play: _An apple cleft in two is not more twin_ _Than these two creatures_ Interestingly, I found a pair of real life identical twins playing Sebastian and Viola in a stage play: > **[Identical Twins Will Star in New York Production of Twelfth Night](https://playbill.com/article/identical-twins-will-star-in-new-york-production-of-twelfth-night)** > > The limited engagement will play the Queens Theatre in Flushing Meadows Park. The play _is_ an interesting peek into how gender identity was handled back in the Elizabethan Era. (Of course, through the wacky lens of Shakespeare.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/286 "2022-11-17T21:40:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Sure, but I believe the idea was that they were _completely_ identical despite being different sexes. They couldn’t have been _completely_ identical, because they were, y’know… different sexes. Shakespeare never said they were monozygotic twins, largely because he didn’t know what that was. But that also means you can’t say that he portrayed monozygotic twins incorrectly, because nothing in the play _says_ they’re monozygotic. He wrote a play about two siblings whose are indistinguishable from each other (at least while one of them is in drag), which is a thing that can absolutely happen with non-monozygotic twins, or even non-twin siblings. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/287 "2022-11-17T21:49:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He wrote a play about two siblings whose are indistinguishable from each other (at least while one of them is in drag), which is a thing that can absolutely happen with non-monozygotic twins, or even non-twin siblings. I did a bit of research and apparently it is technically possible for identical twins to be born male-female if one of them develops Turner Syndrome. > **[Are Identical Twins Always the Same Sex?](https://www.verywellfamily.com/boy-girl-identical-twins-2447124)** > > Identical twins are the always the same sex, with some very rare exceptions. Fraternal twins may be the same sex or different sexes. But it seems clear that they wouldn’t look alike in that case, because the genetic mutation in one twin would lead to the child developing much shorter than her monozygotic identical twin brother. Still, I had no idea such a thing was possible, ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/288 "2022-11-17T22:47:01Z")
As are both the cartoon and live-action versions of Mulan. Can’t show those to kids anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/289 "2022-11-17T22:58:34Z")
Frankly it’s fucking ridiculous to try to pass this kind of bullshit law. I’m not shocked it happened in Texas. Other places I would not be surprised to have this kind of law… Florida or Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/290 "2022-11-17T23:36:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not sure, as the bill does specify that they also have to serve alcohol to be considered a sexually oriented business. I don’t know if they serve or not. Houston Grand Opera, and AFAICT most other major opera companies, do have on-premises bars that serve alcohol, so they’d become a “sexually oriented business” under the bill’s amendment of the Business and Commerce Code. But the bill doesn’t even require alcohol consumption to define a “sexually oriented business” under its amended Local Government Code. Such a business is either something along the lines of a sex parlor, adult movie theater, etc., or > [@](#): > > a nightclub, bar, restaurant, or other commercial enterprise that provides for an audience of two or more individuals a drag performance. I.e., you show a Texas audience anything in the way of an actor portraying a character of a different biological sex from the actor’s own, and you are automatically classed with strip joints and X-rated movies as far as the Local Government Code is concerned. (But you are right that the “commercial enterprise” specification would exempt school theater groups, for example. I guess the Texas transphobes are sufficiently confident of being able to suppress transgender rights in schools by other means.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/291 "2022-11-18T15:39:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Houston Grand Opera, and AFAICT most other major opera companies, do have on-premises bars that serve alcohol, so they’d become a “sexually oriented business” under the bill’s amendment of the Business and Commerce Code. Like I said, I didn’t know if they served, apparently they do. > [@Kimstu](#): > > But the bill doesn’t even require alcohol consumption to define a “sexually oriented business” under its amended Local Government Code. Such a business is either something along the lines of a sex parlor, adult movie theater, etc., or IANAL, so I may not be parsing this correctly, but it also says > [@](#): > > and > (B) authorizes on-premises consumption of > alcoholic beverages, regardless of whether the consumption of > alcoholic beverages is under a license or permit issued under the > Alcoholic Beverage Code. So to my rather untrained legal mind, this indicates that they have to have consumption of alcohol to be classified as a sexually oriented business. But, as you accurately point out, _later_ it does broaden that definition. Is it actually making two different definitions here, or am I just not reading something right? > [@Kimstu](#): > > you show a Texas audience anything in the way of an actor portraying a character of a different biological sex from the actor’s own, and you are automatically classed with strip joints and X-rated movies as far as the Local Government Code is concerned. I wonder if that means no playing of the Simpsons. Bart is voiced by a woman. (And in fact, many male cartoon and anime characters are voiced by women.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/292 "2022-11-18T17:19:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, as you accurately point out, _later_ it does broaden that definition. Is it actually making two different definitions here, or am I just not reading something right? IANAL, or a Texan, so I’m not quite sure, but there do seem to be two separate legal provisions being reworded in this bill: the first is “Section 102.051, Business & Commerce Code” and the second is “Section 243.002, Local Government Code”. I have no idea what it means for those two provisions to apparently be using non-identical definitions of “sexually oriented business”, if indeed they are. If I were an opera manager, though, I’d definitely want to get clarification on the legal status of travesti roles under this legislative regulation. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/293 "2022-11-18T19:57:52Z")
I think those types of performances expect they have a [Shirley Exception](https://twitter.com/alexandraerin/status/1004401076777504769?lang=en) (and to be honest probably do have a de facto one even though they don’t have one in the law), but I do have a cis woman friend who ran afoul\* of the North Carolina bathroom bill when the line for the ladies was too long, so I could be wrong about whether they will have any issues. \*She was kicked out, and the police were called, but she wasn’t arrested, so a trans man in the same scenario still has it worse ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/294 "2022-11-20T15:42:13Z")
They would probably view that as a the law working as intended. A movie aimed at children teaching them to eschew traditional gender roles and promoting female empowerment, is exactly the sort of thing they most want to censor. As for Shakespeare and opera, only liberal elites watch that sort of thing, so no great loss. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/295 "2022-11-20T17:40:18Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > As are both the cartoon and live-action versions of Mulan. Conservatives have been targeting Mulan for the last couple of years on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/296 "2022-11-24T23:46:09Z")
…DC is now passed a “transgender and abortion refugee bill”, that, in the words of Erin Reed, means “they can’t use ANY means to enforce anti-trans and anti-abortion laws against people fleeing states.” > I’m predicting an increase in Balkanization in the US: some places will increase protections and others will double down on the attacks. As more and more anti-trans legistlation gets passed you will see larger groups of people migrating to States where they will be allowed to live their lives. And forgive me for a mild digression: but in other parts of the world… > > [@from that tweet](#): > > NHS England’s new guidelines say being trans is likely a phase, and doctors could try to stop young people from wearing the clothes they choose. Somebody asked how this would be enforced, and this was one of the (horrific) responses: > [@from twitter](#): > > As someone who was sectioned as a teen for being an inconvenience (aka a gay GNC autistic) to them I have a horrible theory about where this is headed. > > I never said I was trans or anything, I just was visibly butch. In hospital I was made to grow out my hair and change my entire demeanor to be more ladylike. They considered my short hair and working class masculinity a sign of mental illness: no change, no freedom > > For the record I was in there for being burned out and suicidal. I still was when I left but they considered me fixed because I went fem. I couldn’t safely cut my hair off again until the service finally dropped me (I was stuck with them until my autism diagnosis and then _poof_) > ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/297 "2022-11-28T18:44:39Z")
Not a lawyer and hopefully I’m misreading, but section 201(c) appears to contain a major typo that nullifies the advertised effect. The law is a deviation from the Uniform Interstate Depositions and Discovery Act, which sets out the procedure for interstate subpoenas. D.C.'s new provisions require all foreign jurisdictions seeking a deposition or discovery in D.C. to swear that they do not intend or anticipate the request would further a proceeding of the type described in §2-1441.02(a). §2-1441.02 does not seem to exist. The Human Rights Act of 1977 ends in the 1430s and the D.C. Code picks up again in the 1470s. Google has exactly one result for “2-1441.02”, in a footnote from appendix B-11 of an Urban Institute paper dated to 2005 (almost certainly a typo for 1411.02 concerning the Office of Human Rights which deals with employment, accomodations, and education discrimination). Contraception, gender-affirming care, and “living arrangement” are newly defined in §2-1401 but there is no paragraph “a” and the definitions wouldn’t describe a type of proceeding anyways. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/298 "2022-11-29T10:06:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …DC is now passed a “transgender and abortion refugee bill”, that, in the words of Erin Reed, means “they can’t use ANY means to enforce anti-trans and anti-abortion laws against people fleeing states.” I look forward to Republicans passing a Fugitive Fetus Act. 🤬 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/299 "2022-11-29T17:09:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He wrote a play about two siblings whose are indistinguishable from each other (at least while one of them is in drag), which is a thing that can absolutely happen with non-monozygotic twins, or even non-twin siblings. Or hell, just two people. I once was a judge at a martial arts kata-based competition, and one match was a woman vs. a man, and they were just about physically identical, even to hair color and cut. If you’d told me they were twins, I wouldn’t have been able to dispute it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/300 "2022-11-30T13:00:50Z")
…just an anecdote on Twitter. But just about damn near broke me. > [@Twitter](#): > > Before we fled Texas, my daughter fell at school and an ambulance was called. When the ambulance driver found out my daughter was trans, he called the police. This act drove such fear in me, I refused the school’s offer to file a complaint. [https://twitter.com/SuzanneSanders/status/1597818078787948544](https://twitter.com/SuzanneSanders/status/1597818078787948544) Just the reality of what the “war on Transgender people” actually means. People fleeing states. Children interrogated in their homes. Ambulance drivers calling the police when they discover trans kids. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=16)