# Republicans' war on transgender people: Omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609 "2022-06-03T02:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/601 "2023-04-09T12:56:48Z")
Okay, I suppose I can see how there are those who would want the law enforced in that way, but I can’t see how it could be. We don’t test for doping based on the objections of other participants, we test all of them when they reach the levels where competition is high enough that people are willing to risk their health to get an advantage. So, either everyone in a particular contest has their gender verified, or none do. Personally, I think they _should_ do nothing. When it comes to levels of competition where testing for doping is appropriate, part of that _is_ testosterone levels, and if those are well out of line, then further investigation may be warranted. In order of decreasing likelihood, that may be that a cis-gender woman is doping, it could be that a trans-gender woman needs to have her hormone therapy adjusted, or it could be that a man is pretending to be a woman to be more competitive and isn’t taking hormone therapy at all. Do you think they should do differently? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/602 "2023-04-09T13:11:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you think they should do differently? I thought the reasoning goes like this: I think there should be an open-to-all category, where the first-place runner gets a gold medal — no matter what they were assigned at birth, or identify as, or whatever, sure as nobody bothers to check out anybody’s genitalia — and the second-place runner gets a silver, and third a bronze, period. And, apparently, there’s enough demand for a category that’ll be open only to those who were assigned female at birth? So if you were assigned female at birth — and, say, you provide a birth certificate attesting to that fact — then you get the choice of competing in the ‘open’ category or the ‘AFAB’ category: again, regardless of what you identify as; and, again, nobody bothers to check any genitalia; and then _they,_ too, go gold-silver-bronze. Off the top of my head, that’d seem to suffice; but I’m of course open to revising my position, if someone brings a less bad option to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/603 "2023-04-09T13:41:20Z")
Your proposal would seem to allow trans men to potentially dominate the “assigned female at birth” category. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/604 "2023-04-09T13:42:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your proposal would seem to allow trans men to potentially dominate the “assigned female at birth” category Interesting point. Okay, so say we reclassify it as the “assigned female at birth, identify as female” category — would that work? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/605 "2023-04-09T13:46:50Z")
Yeah, this doesn’t seem to address the problem if the concern really is people faking changing their gender in order to be more competitive. A woman could claim to be transgender in order to justify testosterone supplements, but the law says that she would still have to compete with the other cis-gender women, where she would have an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/606 "2023-04-09T13:48:02Z")
So you want a cis woman category, I take it? Non binary women (and non binary people and other similar categories), even if they’re assigned female at birth and have never taken hormones or anything else, aren’t allowed? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/607 "2023-04-09T13:49:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > A woman could claim to be transgender in order to justify testosterone supplements, but the law says that she would still have to compete with the other cis-gender women, where she would have an advantage. That’s why I mentioned an ‘open’ category: she wouldn’t still “have” to exclusively compete with cisgender women, she’d have the option of competing in the ‘open’ category. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/608 "2023-04-09T13:52:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you want a cis woman category, I take it? Non binary women (and non binary people and other similar categories), even if they’re assigned female at birth and have never taken hormones or anything else, aren’t allowed If the demand is there for a third category, I could get on board with that, too, instead of just having them compete in the ‘open’ category. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/609 "2023-04-09T13:54:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think there should be an open-to-all category, where the first-place runner gets a gold medal — no matter what they were assigned at birth, or identify as, or whatever, sure as nobody bothers to check out anybody’s genitalia — and the second-place runner gets a silver, and third a bronze, period. Okay, so in most sports, that would be men winning all those spots. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, apparently, there’s enough demand for a category that’ll be open only to those who were assigned female at birth? I mean, there was demand for white’s only lunch counters, too. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So if you were assigned female at birth — and, say, you provide a birth certificate attesting to that fact — then you get the choice of competing in the ‘open’ category or the ‘AFAB’ category: again, regardless of what you identify as; and, again, nobody bothers to check any genitalia; and then _they,_ too, go gold-silver-bronze. If someone transfers from one of [these states](https://www.totallegal.com/changing-gender-on-birth-certificate): > [@](#): > > ## States that Only Require Birth Certificate Gender Change Applications > > The following states only require applications to be filed with the state Vital Statistics office, and do not require gender reassignment surgery, court orders, physician affidavits, or any other affidavits: > > - California > - Connecticut > - District of Columbia > - Delaware > - Florida > - Hawaii > - Idaho > - Illinois > - Maryland > - Massachusetts > - Minnesota > - Montana > - Nevada > - New Jersey > - New York > - Oregon > - Pennsylvania > - Rhode Island > - Vermont > - Washington They will have their genitals checked? > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Off the top of my head, that’d seem to suffice; but I’m of course open to revising my position, if someone brings a less bad option to my attention. I mean, there _is_ the less bad of simply not trying to create laws that discriminate and oppress minorities. That it’s hard to oppress minorities without accidently harming the rest is a feature, not a bug, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/610 "2023-04-09T14:02:23Z")
How about we keep it as is, and allow trans people to compete as they identify, except when they’re lying (i.e. they’re not trans) or there’s a real negative impact to competitive fairness or safety? In other words, case by case? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/611 "2023-04-09T14:13:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I mean, there was demand for white’s only lunch counters, too. I mean, if the parallel you’re going for is that we should only allow the ‘open to all’ category instead of also having a ‘so-and-so-only’ category, then, sure, I’m open to that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/612 "2023-04-09T14:19:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How about we keep it as is, and allow trans people to compete as they identify, except when they’re lying (i.e. they’re not trans) What “they’re lying” test do you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/613 "2023-04-09T14:22:00Z")
…good GOD I hope we aren’t going to have another “should we allow trans people in sports” debate. We are on the verge of genocide. The purpose of this legislation is to put trans people on notice that you are not welcome to participate in society. It only gets _worse_ from here. The amount of trans people actually participating in sport is miniscule. And they aren’t winning anything. They aren’t taking away medals, they aren’t causing injuries. Its an entirely made up issue based on fear, hatred and prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/614 "2023-04-09T14:22:24Z")
Someone makes a complaint (anonymously, if they want, as long as basis to be suspicious is provided), that complaint is investigated. ISTM that if there was going to be some enormous problem of fake trans people dominating women’s sports, we’d have seen it already. AFAICT, such instances have been vanishingly rare. Maybe it just wouldn’t be a significant problem. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/615 "2023-04-09T14:27:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Someone makes a complaint (anonymously, if they want, as long as basis to be suspicious is provided), that complaint is investigated. …investigated _how?_ That sounds okay in general, but I genuinely don’t know what specifics you have in mind. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/616 "2023-04-09T14:30:50Z")
By investigators, perhaps? The same ones who investigate claims of doping, or cheating, or other violations in sports (as long as they also have training in trans issues)? Did you really need me to suggest that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/617 "2023-04-09T14:33:20Z")
I didn’t say “by whom”, but “how”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/618 "2023-04-09T14:35:11Z")
Are you equally concerned how investigators investigate claims of doping and cheating? And do you need those details before you consider banning doping and cheating in sports? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/619 "2023-04-09T14:40:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I didn’t say “by whom”, but “how”. …the way that many sports were already doing it until transphobic rhetoric started to take hold in the last year or so. It isn’t a major issue. Different sports handled it differently, and it’s easy enough to look it up if you want. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/620 "2023-04-09T14:44:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you equally concerned how investigators investigate claims of doping and cheating? Yes. > [@](#): > > And do you need those details before you consider banning doping and cheating in sports? _Before_ I consider it? No. _When_ I consider it? I’m — probably going to ask questions about “how”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=32)