# Republicans' war on transgender people: Omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609 "2022-06-03T02:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/641 "2023-04-09T16:40:29Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I think a simple “thats a fucking stupid idea, there is no need for it, nobody is asking for this, it doesn’t fix anything, fuck the fuckity off with your stupid fucking idea” is challenge enough. We don’t need to debate the details. Appealing to their humanity doesn’t work. Appealing to their self interest may. Explaining how their attempts at hurting others will hurt them is the only possibility to get them to change their minds. It’s far more effective than whatever it is you are trying to do. All you do is alienate people on your own side by screaming at them that they aren’t doing things the way that you want them to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/642 "2023-04-09T16:43:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > absolutely, 100% **NOT**. You’re fine. I’ve got no issue with you. Really? He’s the one that proposed the idea that you say is "a fucking stupid idea, there is no need for it, nobody is asking for this, it doesn’t fix anything, fuck the fuckity off with your stupid fucking idea” and is defending it. Does he have genocidal intent? I don’t know what his intent is. But he _is_ defending those that do and advocating for the policies they put out. Odd that the only ones that you have issue with are the ones that are pushing back against, "a fucking stupid idea, there is no need for it, nobody is asking for this, it doesn’t fix anything, fuck the fuckity off with your stupid fucking idea”, but you are 100% fine with those who propose it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/643 "2023-04-09T16:49:24Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Really? He’s the one that proposed the idea that you say is "a fucking stupid idea, But _you’re_ the one who slung the false accusation that: _“There’s no hope of making them see The Other as humans to be respected, that ship sailed long ago.”_ AFAICT, that was a — what’s the phrase? — a _fucking stupid_ idea, to so personalize it with so false a claim. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/644 "2023-04-09T17:24:23Z")
As I see it, a new law about subjecting school athletes to a gender-ID test - WHATEVER form it takes, is essentially a _deterrence_ messaging measure: if you’re a trans girl, better _not even bother trying out_ because you stand to be subject to indignity and humiliation on demand (as noted, it leaves it to the organizers to figure out method and quantum of proof). And when you think about it, it just adversely affects _girls in general_ , because I suspect what is likely to happen more often is that the “mean girls” at school or the jealous parents of other girls or even random “concerned citizens” will be making harassing complaints that there’s something “not normal” with some girl they don’t like. _“It doesn’t matter if she’s not, we want to make her have to deny it”_ , to use the famous political quote. … The really sad/scary part of all this is that this is _not_ something that is some sort of freak-fringe nuissance a-la-Westboro/Phelps. This is something encouraged or at least acquiesced to by enough people to elect its proponents to school boards and legislatures. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/645 "2023-04-09T17:42:47Z")
As with bathroom bills, trans women will be excluded from being able to use public facilities (bathrooms, sports) at all, and it will be open season to harass cis women who look insufficiently feminine. Gender conformity for all. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/646 "2023-04-09T18:23:00Z")
> [@chela](#): > > As a parent would you allow your preteen kid to have their genitalia examined if an ambiguous or otherwise law suggested it? Hell no. Back in my sports physical days, it included a hernia check (“turn your head and cough while I press on your testical” (I assume there is something similar for women)). What appears to be different now is that the type of genital will apparently be reported to someplace that has no need to know. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/647 "2023-04-09T18:42:05Z")
No nothing of the sort for my daughters, their playing years were 2005-15. In fact free sports physicals were offered to to all athletes at the school done by the female athletic trainer on campus. Nobody had to strip down. IIRC it’s not that rigorous of a physical. Basic history taken and vitals checked. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/648 "2023-04-09T18:46:07Z")
Between my wife, daughter and I we have participated in over 50 seasons of organized sports, which required dozens of physicals none of which involved anyone except our respective PCPs checking anything. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/649 "2023-04-09T19:04:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Explaining how their attempts at hurting others will hurt them is the only possibility to get them to change their minds. The leopards will never eat _their_ faces, silly. You can’t win them over with logic. Their hate is visceral, not reasoned. Appealing to them in any way is a fool’s errand. Just fight them where you can. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/650 "2023-04-09T21:16:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It’s far more effective than whatever it is you are trying to do. …I _refuse_ to debate the right of trans people to exist. I’m not going to do it myself, and if you do it in front of me I’ll tell you to shut the fuck up as well. And I’m not concerned about alienating **you**. Because you’ve got a personal problem with me no matter what I say. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Really? Yep. Its really easy to tell those who have been radicalised to those who are just having an argument on the internet. And for the latter, sometimes telling them to shut the fuck up is enough. And if they are secretly the former, (which I don’t believe Waldo Pepper to be) then telling them to shut the fuck up has the added benefit of no longer seeing those arguments here. This place has been orders of magnitude better since we stopped having that debate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/651 "2023-04-09T21:59:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And if they are secretly the former, (which I don’t believe Waldo Pepper to be) You know, that means a lot to me. For what it’s worth, I’d always thought of trans people the way I thought of gay people — in _it-neither-breaks-my-leg-nor-picks-my-pocket_ terms — but, having known any number of them for years in real life, it’s impossible for me to just shrug in the abstract, to just think _well, yeah, they, uh, have the same rights as I do, to free speech and jury trials and all that other stuff._ Instead, there’s a face and a name and a _voice_ and a _person_ — times _five_ or times _ten_ — that I’ve come to genuinely care about. (Of course, that shouldn’t make a philosophical difference; after all, having met non-trans people who _aren’t_ warm and easy to get along with sure as hell hasn’t soured me on perfunctory questions about _their_ basic rights. But I gotta admit that ideology sometimes gets overshadowed by something personal and human, even if it still winds up in the same place.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/652 "2023-04-09T22:24:17Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Back in my sports physical days, it included a hernia check (“turn your head and cough while I press on your testical” (I assume there is something similar for women)). You assume wrong. Women are not routinely checked for hernias because they are much less likely to occur in young women than young men due to the different internal architecture. Certainly, when I did sports in high school there was a physical but no examination of the groin, genitals, crotch, or pelvic area. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/653 "2023-04-09T22:25:29Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Instead, there’s a face and a name and a _voice_ and a _person_ — times _five_ or times _ten_ — that I’ve come to genuinely care about. …what I would humbly ask you to do, is to imagine what the debate we were having in this thread would look like in their eyes. Because we have no skin in the game. But for those that do? We don’t need to talk about their rights in the abstract. America is about a year and a half behind the UK. The _goal_ for them is just to keep having this debate. To keep shifting the window until those in the middle decide to compromise. Then they keep moving the line again. But in places like the UK you’ve basically got three major parties, the Conservatives, Labour, and the Greens who have fully embraced gender critical ideology. Where the debate about “well maybe we should have an all sports category” lead to there was a shift in what people considered “normal.” And while the people almost overwhelmingly support trans people, _the people with power_ are wielding that power to remove trans people from everyday life. People here are going to assume you were arguing in bad faith because they are surrounded by it, because people are really fucking scared, and because I’m not kidding about genocidal intent. I actually thought you were arguing in good faith. Its just that your argument is really fucking stupid 😃 Because nobody is asking for this. Its a compromise solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. In 2018 there were only 50 trans athletes in female sports teams at the collegiate level. _Only 50_. That isn’t worth :: waves hands :: all of this. We don’t need to debate this any more. We just need to _fight_ it. There is no middle ground. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/654 "2023-04-10T01:48:29Z")
Yes, that’s the thing. For practical purposes, there aren’t any trans athletes who matter to anyone but themselves. The only reason it gets into the news is because it’s one of the few areas where transphobes can argue, “hey, these biological differences really matter” without obviously looking like transphobes. And they can get other people to be talking about exactly the issues that make trans people uncomfortable. And it’s all theoretical. And oh so reasonable. And so completely meaningless. It’s pointless to build policy around a handful of people, any handful of people. But by bringing it up you can coax completely decent people to talk about the stuff that interests trans phobes. It’s a trap I’ve fallen into in the past. I’ll probably fall into it again. But it’s just a trap. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/655 "2023-04-10T02:55:22Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It’s a trap I’ve fallen into in the past. I’ll probably fall into it again. …gosh, we all fell for it in the old JK Rowling thread. I spent _way_ too many hours arguing in that. It was probably that thread, more than anything else, that radicalised me. Its the _reasonableness_ of the position that is the gateway. “Its about protecting women.” “Children shouldn’t be making these decisions.” “We need to protect our spaces.” I’ve seen people become radicalised from these starting positions. It’s _terrifying_ to watch. Watching it happen in real time with YWTF and monstro was just horrible. They were two of my favourite posters here on the dope. And by the time they both left, they seemed like completely different people. And to be crystal clear: @The_Other_Waldo_Pepper _isn’t_ on that path, IMHO. I think at a different time, in a different political environment, with the world in a very different place, we could have a reasonable discussion about “open to all” categories in sports, and how you could make that happen. But right now it needs to be recognized that there is a global movement to push trans people out of everyday life. Ban them from bathrooms. Ban them from sports. Ban them from getting the healthcare that they need. And they are _winning_. The new rules proposed by the Biden administration this week contains enough concessions to the gender-extremists that it isn’t exactly a “win” for them, but it was enough for me to be worried about what concessions they will make in the future. And in the UK, the Equality and Human Rights Commission, the organization that "promotes and upholds equality and human rights ideals across England, Scotland and Wales, this week published a letter “largely advocating for sex to be defined as biological sex” in UK equalities law. The organization that is supposed to _protect_ and fight for the rights of trans people, now advocates for a position that would make it easier to _exclude_ trans women from womens sports and single-sex spaces. And the Conservatives, the Labour Party, and the Greens all basically came out this week and said “you know? That seems fine.” So I’m going to get grumpy when people try to re-litigate that debate over again here. The laws need to be fought. Trans people need to be protected. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/656 "2023-04-10T07:22:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The “sports debate” is about normalising a public debate on how trans people should exist in society. Its easy to get caught up in it. I know I have. But it isn’t important right now. The details don’t matter. Hardly any trans people participate in sports, they aren’t “winning” to any extent that it matters. There aren’t hordes of cis men pretending to be women so they can get titles. It a non issue. I’d venture to say the grand total of of cis men pretending to be women so they can get a sports title is exactly zero. As you say, this is a facade to cover the Qliban’s real intent. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/657 "2023-04-10T11:45:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Women are not routinely checked for hernias because they are much less likely to occur in young women than young men due to the different internal architecture. Ignorance fought and thanks. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/658 "2023-04-10T12:27:10Z")
Yeah, once rights in general are properly secured and established, we may legit discuss case-specific application. For a brief time there it may have _looked_ like things were moving in a direction to allow us to start thinking about that, but the ongoing backlash is far harsher than many of us expected. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/659 "2023-04-11T01:27:01Z")
“We have people that live among us today on planet earth that are happy to display themselves as if they were mutants from another planet,” Barnaby said during Monday’s hearing in the House Commerce Committee. “This is the planet earth, where God created men male and women female.” … “The lord rebuke you, Satan, and all of your demons and all of your imps who come parade before us,” Barnaby said. “That’s right, I called you demons and imps, who come and parade before us and pretend that you are part of this world.” > **[Florida Republican apologizes after calling transgender people ‘mutants'](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/10/florida-republican-apology-transgender-comments-00091315)** > > Lawmakers seemed taken aback by his comments. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/660 "2023-04-11T02:30:53Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Florida Republican apologizes after calling transgender people ‘mutants' - POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/10/florida-republican-apology-transgender-comments-00091315) > > > Lawmakers seemed taken aback by his comments. There’s really no reason they should have been; as I said yesterday, they - or at least a significant part of them that the rest can hardly be unaware of - consider transgendered people to be abominations. It isn’t even a question of Barnaby saying the quiet part out loud, they say it out loud all the time. The only difference is that he said it in the state congressional chamber. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=34)