# Republicans' war on transgender people: Omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609 "2022-06-03T02:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/981 "2023-08-06T02:19:29Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And don’t get me started on routine circumcision. Yep. There was this case of a [boy raised as a girl thanks to a botched circumcision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/982 "2023-08-06T02:22:40Z")
I’m not well versed in this and could be wrong. But from what I’ve read and heard over the past years or so, there seem to be long-term negative aspects of employing puberty blockers, some of them irreversible. Here’s some of what I’ve read: “Parents are also lied to by activists and clinicians who present puberty blockers as _fully reversible._ How is time reversible? If a child goes on puberty blockers for 5 years, those important years of development are gone. Their bones don’t gain any density. Boys genitals don’t grow. Girls breasts don’t grow and their pelvises don’t expand. If a boy wants to go on to sex-reassignment surgery as an adult, there is usually not enough genital tissue to invert in order to create the neovagina, so surgeons end up using tissue from the bowels.” From here: [The Science — 🅑🅘🅛🅛🅑🅞🅐🅡🅓 🅒🅗🅡🅘🅢](https://www.billboardchris.com/the-science) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/983 "2023-08-06T02:24:58Z")
I just want to say that 🅑🅘🅛🅛🅑🅞🅐🅡🅓 🅒🅗🅡🅘🅢 is the place to go for science!!! Also, [I ❤ JK Rowling](https://www.billboardchris.com/i-jk-rowling) . . . really… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/984 "2023-08-06T02:29:31Z")
I ALWAYS go to weirdos with sandwich boards for the latest scientific consensus. Who else are you gonna trust - _scientists_? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/985 "2023-08-06T02:45:19Z")
**DesertDog** ’s link ([to the Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075)) says similar things, though: > Use of GnRH analogues also might have long-term effects on: > > - Growth spurts. > - Bone growth. > - Bone density. > - Fertility, depending on when the medicine is started. > > If individuals assigned male at birth begin using GnRH analogues early in puberty, they might not develop enough skin on the penis and scrotum to be able to have some types of gender-affirming surgeries later in life. But other surgery approaches usually are available. It’s a bit strange, frankly. On one hand, they say the changes are not permanent. But on the other hand they say that side effects might include long-term reduced bone density and such reduced genital development that it makes later gender-affirming surgeries impossible. Those don’t seem like consistent statements to me. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/986 "2023-08-06T03:00:43Z")
I _think_ the case is that sexual maturation is just one of the things that happen during puberty, that there are other things happening which have to do with growth but not sexual maturation. But that’s just a guess on my part. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/987 "2023-08-06T05:19:53Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Those don’t seem like consistent statements to me. And **magellan01** ’s citations of Billboard Chris are. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/988 "2023-08-06T06:06:24Z")
I’m not going to defend anything some unknown rando said. But your Mayo Clinic link seems pretty damning. It could be that the side effects are extremely rare, but the article doesn’t say one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/989 "2023-08-06T06:16:10Z")
You know what’s more harmful to kids than long-term effects on bone growth? _Suicide._ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/990 "2023-08-06T06:16:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not well versed in this and could be wrong. But from what I’ve read and heard over the past years or so, there seem to be long-term negative aspects of employing puberty blockers, some of them irreversible. Here’s some of what I’ve read: > > “Parents are also lied to by activists and clinicians who present puberty blockers as _fully reversible._ How is time reversible? If a child goes on puberty blockers for 5 years, those important years of development are gone. Their bones don’t gain any density. Boys genitals don’t grow. Girls breasts don’t grow and their pelvises don’t expand. If a boy wants to go on to sex-reassignment surgery as an adult, there is usually not enough genital tissue to invert in order to create the neovagina, so surgeons end up using tissue from the bowels.” > > From here: [The Science — 🅑🅘🅛🅛🅑🅞🅐🅡🅓 🅒🅗🅡🅘🅢](https://www.billboardchris.com/the-science) ⁢ Take another look at what you’re quoting. Look at how it is said. They claim that the doctors and “activists” are lying. They use rhetorical questions that say nothing, like “how can time be reversible?” Notice who is writing it–is it a medical professional or expert? This person is not being rigorous. They clearly have an agenda, and are making no attempts to remove their bias. It’s just not a high quality source for when you’re looking for information. I’m not going to say there are no chances at complications from puberty blockers. But what this article is saying is clearly exaggerated. It’s not written in a way to take seriously. (Note, this works only one way. Sometimes things that look reputable are not. But my point is that sources that don’t look reputable can be safely ignored.) Oh, and BTW, allowing puberty to happen is definitely irreversible. So you have to weigh that, too. If someone is trans, not having gone through puberty is a big leg up, especially for trans women. It might be worth it to have to use some additional tissue to make a vagina if it means her voice and skeletal structure will not have changed to be more “masculine.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/991 "2023-08-06T06:25:58Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’m not going to defend anything some unknown rando said. But your Mayo Clinic link seems pretty damning. It could be that the side effects are extremely rare, but the article doesn’t say one way or another. ⁢ It mentions them on a list of possible side effects. But it also suggests that these side effects are manageable: > Those who take GnRH analogues typically have their height checked every few months. Yearly bone density and bone age tests may be advised. To support bone health, youth taking puberty blockers may need to take calcium and vitamin D supplements I don’t see any of this as “damning.” It just sounds like they have to be extra careful, similar to other medications. My PPI (proton pump inhibitor) also says that it can cause some bone loss due to reduces calcium and magnesium absorption. So I have to have my levels checked. And PPIs are given to children all the time. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/992 "2023-08-06T11:24:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Oh, and BTW, allowing puberty to happen is definitely irreversible. Yes, “she’s 6’2”, has developed an Adam’s apple and masculine bone structure, but at least she has a large enough penis to construct a vagina out of!" is one of the most bizarre arguments against puberty blockers that I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/993 "2023-08-06T12:31:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Take another look at what you’re quoting. Look at how it is said. They claim that the doctors and “activists” are lying. They use rhetorical questions that say nothing, like “how can time be reversible?” Notice who is writing it–is it a medical professional or expert? magellan01 should get used to using the [CRAAP test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRAAP_test) for his sources. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/994 "2023-08-06T15:12:12Z")
I’m listening to the book Peter Pan, and Pan never wants to grow up, he never wants to be a man. Could someone like Pan remain on puberty blockers for life? Maybe there are kids out there who never want to go through any kind or puberty. They may identify as non binary and like their prepubescent body just as it is and want to continue taking puberty blockers. They don’t want to take cross sex drugs or revert. Now what happens? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/995 "2023-08-06T15:17:44Z")
If it’s a treatment for a medical condition, acknowledged by the medical community and backed by science, then yes. If not, then it’s not a useful hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/996 "2023-08-06T15:26:48Z")
Gender dysphoria is the medical condition. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/997 "2023-08-06T16:06:08Z")
And is what you describe a valid treatment? Backed by science? Endorsed by medical associations? And prescribed by doctors? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/998 "2023-08-06T16:15:29Z")
> [@chela](#): > > I’m listening to the book Peter Pan, and Pan never wants to grow up, he never wants to be a man. > > Could someone like Pan remain on puberty blockers for life? Maybe there are kids out there who never want to go through any kind or puberty If you want to understand trans people and their unique experience, I suggest you read things written by trans people about the trans experience, rather than early 20th century fanfasy novels written by a guy who isn’t trans and wasn’t trying to write about trans people and using your own imagination to link the two. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/999 "2023-08-06T16:23:17Z")
Not my imagination. > **[Forever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adults](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7656150/)** > > In this article, we analyse the novel case of Phoenix, a non-binary adult requesting ongoing puberty suppression (OPS) to permanently prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics, as a way of affirming their gender identity. We argue that... ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609/1000 "2023-08-06T16:27:46Z")
Still imagination, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/republicans-war-on-transgender-people-omnibus-thread/965609.md?page=51)