# Repubs have formed an openly racist caucus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 17, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207 "2021-04-17T12:56:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/141 "2021-04-17T20:24:55Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There’s a difference between, “America’s legal immigration system should be curtailed to those that can contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for **this nation’s culture** and rule of law,” and “America’s legal immigration system should be curtailed to those that can contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for the rule of law.” That difference is important and you are posting as if the second when they clearly said the first. There’s also an important divide in our immigration system. Citizens from some countries have a legal quota for immigrating to the United States; citizens from other countries have no legal quota. So when the anti-immigrant crowd complains that some people are illegal immigrants, they should remember that American law prohibited those people from immigrating legally. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/142 "2021-04-17T20:27:35Z")
Still think I was overreacting? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/143 "2021-04-17T20:28:29Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There’s a difference between, “America’s legal immigration system should be curtailed to those that can contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for **this nation’s culture** and rule of law,” and “America’s legal immigration system should be curtailed to those that can contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for the rule of law.” That difference is important and you are posting as if the second when they clearly said the first. > > “It’s not too racist if you ignore the racist stuff,” is one (incredibly ignorant) way to look at this, I guess. Sure, but — again — _compared to what?_ Let’s say, because it’s true, that I like the way you put it there: “contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for the rule of law.” And then a someone comes along who says “contribute not only economically, but have demonstrated respect for this nation’s culture and rule of law”. And I say, well, I like two of those, but I’m raising an eyebrow at the bit about culture; maybe I’ll vote against that guy… …but if he’s running against someone who says, oh, hey, I disagree about culture, _and_ about contributing economically, _and_ about the rule of law, then I’m raising multiple eyebrows at that guy. _Dangit,_ I’d say to myself with a sigh, _I sure wish either of these candidates only signed on for the two criteria I like; but if I’m choosing between these guys? Okay, looks like one of them agrees with me on five other issues, but disagrees with me on three…_ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/144 "2021-04-17T20:28:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How are current immigrants any different than past immigrants? It’s funny you mention that. The America First Caucus addresses this directly. > An important distinction between post-1965 immigrants and previous waves of settlers is that previous cohorts were more educated, earned higher wages, and did not have an expansive welfare state to fall back on when they could not make it in America and thus did not stay in the country at the expense of the native-born. It’s made up bullshit, of course, and has a little racist nugget at the end, but they do address it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/145 "2021-04-17T20:33:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sure, but — again — _compared to what?_ The difference between the racist version and the non-racist version is the racist part. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …but if he’s running against someone who says, oh, hey, I disagree about culture, _and_ about contributing economically, _and_ about the rule of law, then I’m raising multiple eyebrows at that guy. Sure, don’t vote for this made up guy who has no resemblance to anyone running past, present, or future for any office. I agree with you here that the candidate whose platform is, “Let’s import criminals,” is a dogshit candidate and doesn’t deserve your vote. Straw man much? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/146 "2021-04-17T20:33:30Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If somebody’s a willing torturer, murderer, and kicker of puppies, they’re a terrible person. If they’re hanging around with other terrible people, that doesn’t make them less so. Well, no — but if someone tortures and murders, and then mentions that he thinks arson should be illegal, I’m going to say, _hey, I disagree with that guy about torture and murder, and we should look into locking him up; but I’m not going to back down on my anti-arson stance just because he’s anti-arson, because that would be absurd. He might favor dozens of things I’m also in favor of; none of that means I’m okay with murder or torture, just that I hold my beliefs regardless of whether he happens to agree with them._ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/147 "2021-04-17T20:33:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > _and_ about contributing economically, _and_ about the rule of law And who, pray tell, would _that_ be? That is _not_ the position of the Democratic party, so you can leave all your eyebrows down. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/148 "2021-04-17T20:35:22Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It’s made up bullshit, of course, and has a little racist nugget at the end, but they do address it. So all we need to do is point out their position is based on incorrect information and they’ll acknowledge their movement is unnecessary and disband? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/149 "2021-04-17T20:36:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I disagree with that guy about torture and murder, and we should look into locking him up; but I’m not going to back down on my anti-arson stance just because he’s anti-arson, because that would be absurd. Yes, but would you take his word for it when he starts claiming he knows who the _real_ arsonists are? 'Cause that is exactly what you are doing when you lap up this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/150 "2021-04-17T20:37:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > _and_ about contributing economically, _and_ about the rule of law > > And who, pray tell, would _that_ be? > > That is _not_ the position of the Democratic party, so you can leave all your eyebrows down. Uh, yeah. Like I said, if the next election involves a Democrat who _doesn’t_ take an open-borders stance, then he can put a sundae up against shit and earn my vote; but I’m not ruling out the possibility that he’ll offer up open-borders shit when the time comes, is all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/151 "2021-04-17T20:39:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How are current immigrants any different than past immigrants? Are you asking about current _legal_ immigrants, or current _illegal_ immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/152 "2021-04-17T20:41:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, but would you take his word for it when he starts claiming he knows who the _real_ arsonists are? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/153 "2021-04-17T20:44:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > How are current immigrants any different than past immigrants? - > > Are you asking about current _legal_ immigrants, or current _illegal_ immigrants? I’m asking about immigrants. Because otherwise the issue becomes a tautology; saying we should have a law forbidding people immigrating from a country because all of the people immigrating from that country would be doing so illegally. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/154 "2021-04-17T20:52:29Z")
It is very unlikely, as there is no one in any influential part of the Democratic party with that stance. It’s possible that there’s a dark horse newcomer, like the Republicans had with Trump, who brings in such a position, but I don’t find it likely, and certainly don’t find it likely enough to use it as a consideration as to whether or not I find things agreeable in a explicitly racist screed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/155 "2021-04-17T20:52:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m asking about immigrants. Because otherwise the issue becomes a tautology; saying we should have a law forbidding people immigrating from a country because all of the people immigrating from that country would be doing so illegally. But that’s my point: if you’re asking about legal immigrants — either now or in the past — I’d say that our elected officials based their decision on the idea that, hey, _these are the folks we’ve chosen to allow in, presumably because we think it’d be for the benefit of the country_; and if you’re asking about _illegal_ immigrants, now or then, I’d say that our elected officials have decided that, _oh, yeah, these folks, we haven’t chosen to allow them in, because we don’t think it’d be to our benefit._ And, again, we can debate which criteria should be applied — whether things that were disqualifying in the past should now be overlooked, and whether skill sets that weren’t seen as useful back when now strike us as especially valuable — but with an eye on that same goal. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/156 "2021-04-17T20:53:46Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > If they just wanted legal immigrants who contributed economically and respected the rule of law, why do they reference culture over and over? A common setting for an immigration raid is… (dun dun dunnn…) places of business. Because the immigrants in question come here to work. No matter what any racist fool Republican has to pretend. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/157 "2021-04-17T20:55:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > _illegal_ immigrants, now or then, I’d say that our elected officials have decided that, _oh, yeah, these folks, we haven’t chosen to allow them in, because we don’t think it’d be to our benefit._ So, how does that square with people who are undocumented workers also being designated as essential workers. Maybe it wasn’t that not letting them in was to our benefit, maybe us not letting them in was to our detriment, and was only a result of racism and xenophobia. Racism and xenophobia rarely benefit even the racists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/158 "2021-04-17T20:55:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is very unlikely, as there is no one in any influential part of the Democratic party with that stance. > > It’s possible that there’s a dark horse newcomer, like the Republicans had with Trump, who brings in such a position, but I don’t find it likely, and certainly don’t find it likely enough to use it as a consideration as to whether or not I find things agreeable in a explicitly racist screed. But you do too much at the end, there: talking about whether you find _things_ agreeable in it. I can find _some_ things agreeable in it even while disagreeing with some others; I probably agree with you about some things, and won’t stop doing so even if you mention two or three or twenty or thirty that you disagree with me on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/159 "2021-04-17T21:00:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Maybe it wasn’t that not letting them in was to our benefit, maybe us not letting them in was to our detriment, and was only a result of racism and xenophobia. Racism and xenophobia rarely benefit even the racists. But that brings up multiple questions: one is _what should the law be changed to_, while another is _what should we do until the law is changed_. If you want to debate whether it’s to our detriment that some folks aren’t currently being let in who’d benefit us, we can do that; but if you want to debate what’s to be done with those who illegally enter the country at present, that seems like a very different argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207/160 "2021-04-17T21:02:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I can find _some_ things agreeable in it even while disagreeing with some others; There are things in it that are not just disagreeable, they are abhorrent, and the congressional caucus with members who hold these abhorrent views should be condemned for this even if they also hold some non-abhorrent views. A racist who thinks puppies are cute is still a racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/repubs-have-formed-an-openly-racist-caucus/940207.md?page=9)