# Request to all international soccer fans: STOP THAT FUCKING BUZZING! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942 "2010-06-12T18:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/281 "2010-06-15T22:39:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even after living in England for three years and sort of trying to play it, I never really got cricket. I got some of the form (the basic idea of the bowling and batting rules and some of the scoring), but never really comprehended all of it. Talk about complicated rules. It’s like three dimensional chess with a flat bat It’s the Silly Sod Off position that confuses me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/282 "2010-06-15T23:53:48Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Post #28 That post is irrelevant to your own which castigated me for criticizing you. I was _not_ addressing you; I was replying to **even sven** , which is why I quoted her. I was wrong that I hadn’t replied to you within this thread, but as you can see, your original post made such a lasting impression on me that I forgot it within 3 pages of this thread. If you don’t like soccer, fine. I can’t help your guilty conscience or whatever that makes you rip up at me for replying to some else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/283 "2010-06-16T00:17:23Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > This is true for soccer, rugby, cricket, in fact, virtually every team sport that’s played at a competitive level. American football isn’t special in this respect. See all the guys sat down (apart from the substitutes) in the dugouts in the World Cup? They’re all assistant coaches, goalkeeping coaches, offence coaches etc. It _is_ certainly true that American Football is more complex than any other sport - and I say that as an _aficionad_o of the game. Why complexity is a virtue, I am not certain. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/284 "2010-06-16T03:25:02Z")
I don’t share that view on complexity. In each and every play in American Football you start with two knowns. 1. Which team has the ball 2. All play will come from straight in front (or a 180 degree arc) You compare that with say soccer or Australian Rules, amongst other games, where possession (and hence the primary strategy) can change at any instant and that players on both teams in the full 360deg arc can affect the play. That’s two orders of magnitude more complex. Now because the NFL starting points are so rigidly specified means you can stop the clock, change personel, reset the starting position and invoke the array of plays and tactics from bus loads of coaches trying to outguess each other. Watching a quarterback advance their team to a position for the winning score with the clock running down is a military, precision strategy and good to watch. Chess with human pieces. But the real fun parts of NFL come with the spilt ball or a charge down and all of a sudden you get players reacting to what is happening in the instant, not to the pre-prepared coaching instructions. The ability of players to respond, and take advantage of the chaos of the unscripted is what makes a sport complex. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/285 "2010-06-16T03:45:06Z")
You knew this was coming: Dio’s in a video about the vuvuzelas. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ln\_rqPpPk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ln_rqPpPk) 😃 Not one of the funniest of those parodies I’ve seen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/286 "2010-06-16T03:57:03Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Watching a quarterback advance their team to a position for the winning score with the clock running down is a military, precision strategy and good to watch. Chess with human pieces. But the real fun parts of NFL come with the spilt ball or a charge down and all of a sudden you get players reacting to what is happening in the instant, not to the pre-prepared coaching instructions. > > The ability of players to respond, and take advantage of the chaos of the unscripted is what makes a sport complex. Your points are valid but soccer is often referred to as “chess on legs” which it most certainly isn’t. American football is much closer to that just like you said. Soccer is live action [Foosball](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zrpCZr7CwY&NR=1). The misrepresentation in the description goes a long way to make people roll their eyes when there are sports like American football that are more similar to chess with moves complete with set offensive and defensive lines and real playbooks. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/287 "2010-06-16T05:03:07Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > A perfect example of why I am completely baffled by America’s hatred of soccer – and it’s the haters I have issues with … the ones who couldn’t care less, well, waddayagonnado? > > Cricket. I do not understand Cricket one whit. I know there are bowlers and batsmen and wickets, but beyond that I have virtually no knowledge of the game. But because of that I’m more fascinated by it than filled with hatred for it. I wouldn’t in a million years tell someone that Cricket is a stupid sport just because I don’t get it. > > Even if I watched a match (or whatever they call it) and I decided it wasn’t something I ever wanted to watch again, I wouldn’t go off on endless screeds about “where’s the double-play? Why don’t they get to slide? How come there isn’t 9 innings?” or whatever the case may be. Yeah. It’s really odd. I don’t expect everyone to love the game, but this sort of negative obsession is bizarre. I don’t care for hockey, but somehow manage not to jump into hockey threads in order to bash the sport. > [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > This is true for soccer, rugby, cricket, in fact, virtually every team sport that’s played at a competitive level. American football isn’t special in this respect. See all the guys sat down (apart from the substitutes) in the dugouts in the World Cup? They’re all assistant coaches, goalkeeping coaches, offence coaches etc. American football is kind of special in that respect. Really. It’s very much a coach’s sport. I don’t personally find that a virtue (I don’t really find it a negative either). And the vuvuzelas still suck. Cheap plastic imports from China do not make culture. And don’t Mexican use of cheap plastic horns predate South Africa’s? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/288 "2010-06-16T05:42:54Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Yeah. It’s really odd. I don’t expect everyone to love the game, but this sort of negative obsession is bizarre. I think it stems from a latent fear of inferiority. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/289 "2010-06-16T06:00:28Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I think it stems from a latent fear of inferiority. You see it in a lot of threads on TV shows too. People will run in and say, “I can’t believe any of you actually LIKE this show!” ETA: **Shagnasty** , what gives? I thought you were afraid you’d turn into a “fag” if you kept worrying about soccer anymore? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/290 "2010-06-16T06:24:13Z")
My problem with _futbol_\* is that the low scoring makes it unlikely for the best team to win. Gerald Skinner, an astrophysicist at the University of Maryland in College Park [elucidates](http://www.insidescience.org/current_affairs/best_team_not_guaranteed_world_cup_success): > [@Gerald Skinner](#): > > “It’s not entirely a random process, but the result of an individual football match has got a very large element of chance and randomness in it,” said Skinner. > > The average World Cup match in 2006 featured a combined total of 2.3 goals. By analyzing the number of goals and their distribution… Skinner was able to show that if a match were replayed, the number of goals in a match and even the winner could vary considerably even if both teams played exactly as well – partially because soccer is such a low-scoring game. > > For a team that won by a commanding score such as 3-0, fans can be pretty certain that the better team won, but Skinner said that a 2-1 or 1-0 game is not as clear-cut. For example, he found that for 2-1 matches almost one-third of the time the better team does not win. Overall, the odds that the best team will win the World Cup is about 28%. ## It wasn’t always this way. The first set of rules (1863?) had no crossbar on the goal, though that changed a couple of years later. Anyway, [the average number of goals has dropped from 4-5+ in the 1950s to about 2.3 in the 2006 World Cup](http://wm54.inbox.com/thumbs/2e_130b90_e2d4d8d_oP.png.thumb). The rules need more tweaking. - …because nothing says pretension like foreign spelling and italics! ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/291 "2010-06-16T06:58:09Z")
The Vuvuzela is the greatest troll of 2010. I turned on my T.V. just to see what all the buzz was about. Good lord… EL OH FUCKING EL… Maybe next year world cup, maybe next year… ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/292 "2010-06-16T09:45:24Z")
> [@](#): > > the odds that the best team will win the World Cup is about 28% Best team? Defined how? Presumably Skinner thinks FIFA should just hand the cup back to Brazil every four years. The best team in the world win the final every four years. _QED_. In their wake they leave several “best in the world on paper” teams to rue the fact they weren’t able to put their best on the field when it actually mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/293 "2010-06-16T12:28:54Z")
Defined by reference to long term average scoring ability I should think. I suspect that Skinner’s point is that goals are so few that 90 minutes is not actually long enough to give really good odds that the team with the better long term average scoring ability will win. I think that many years ago we had an entire thread on this subject: I am far from certain that our conclusion agreed with Skinner. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/294 "2010-06-16T12:52:35Z")
> [@ajb867](#): > > Maybe next year world cup, maybe next year… I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you’re waiting for next year’s World Cup, you’re going to be sitting in a stadium somewhere all by yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/295 "2010-06-16T13:26:10Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Defined by reference to long term average scoring ability I should think. I suspect that Skinner’s point is that goals are so few that 90 minutes is not actually long enough to give really good odds that the team with the better long term average scoring ability will win. I think that many years ago we had an entire thread on this subject: I am far from certain that our conclusion agreed with Skinner. I still think Skinner is begging the question. The best soccer team is the team that can win within the rules and inherent limitations of the game. I hate using statistics to analyze quality in sports teams because it takes out the human elements. I feel this way when it is applied to any sport. There are football sports writers who do this sort of thing every season, and every season they turn up wrong in their predictions. If stats told the whole story then there would be no reason to actually play the games. We could just run the numbers, adjusting for chance, and see the results. Sort of like how people let the computer play itself in Madden (or any computer game) for a season. The human element, which isn’t bound by statistics, is why we watch. Heroic play, stupid mistakes, great coaching, unbridled emotion, the man who comes from out of nowhere to become a superstar, and the superstar who falls into pieces, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/296 "2010-06-16T14:15:54Z")
> [@ajb867](#): > > I turned on my T.V. just to see what all the buzz was about. I see what you did there. > [@Princhester](#): > > Defined by reference to long term average scoring ability I should think. I suspect that Skinner’s point is that goals are so few that 90 minutes is not actually long enough to give really good odds that the team with the better long term average scoring ability will win. I think that many years ago we had an entire thread on this subject: I am far from certain that our conclusion agreed with Skinner. Even assuming Skinner is correct, that’s not an inherent limitation of the game; that’s a limitation of international competition. If you really wanted to find out who the best team was, you’d have a round robin tournament where all 32 World Cup qualifiers played each other twice. Unfortunately, we don’t have a whole year for the World Cup, so that’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/297 "2010-06-16T15:43:33Z")
Fuck yeah, [culture](http://i.imgur.com/kTKdx.jpg). [What if the NBA was like the World Cup?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSwQYmUva0I) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/298 "2010-06-16T20:14:16Z")
It’s a shame that it takes a demoralizing penalty from the South African goalkeeper to get people to (mostly) stop blowing those damn horns. Even sadder is how the residents of the _host country_ were seen streaming out of the stadium with 10 minutes left in the game. If only South Africa could lose every game. Blessed silence. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/299 "2010-06-16T20:37:11Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you’re waiting for next year’s World Cup, you’re going to be sitting in a stadium somewhere all by yourself. And your horn. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/300 "2010-06-16T20:40:17Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > If only South Africa could lose every game. Blessed silence. They’re probably making an exit soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942.md?page=16)