# Request to all international soccer fans: STOP THAT FUCKING BUZZING! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942 "2010-06-12T18:49:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/321 "2010-06-17T12:36:35Z")
**Measure for Measure** , what are you trying to say? That winning in football is so random that there is no clear difference between favourites and underdogs? If that’s the case, how do you explain that of all the nations who participated in the World Cup only a handful have won it, and some repeatedly (Uruguay and Argentina twice, Germany three times, Italy four times, Brazil five times)? And if you look at the [all-time table](http://www.soccerstats.com/historical.asp?league=alltimeworldcup), the big three, Brazil, Germany and Italy, gather far more points and score far more often than the other nations: Brazil shot 201 goals during 18 World Cups, Germany 190 in 16 (the stats are constantly updated on the side, so you will see their scoring go up during the next weeks, well, I very much hope so). The better teams usually score more, win more games and have a much better chance to win the tournament than the other teams. I am pretty sure, the same is true for the traditional American sports. If the link doesn’t work, here is another table but in German: > **[Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft/Ewige Tabelle](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Weltmeisterschaft/Ewige_Tabelle)** > > Die Ewige Tabelle der Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften ist die Rangliste, bei der die Ergebnisse aller Spiele bei Fußball-Weltmeisterschaften berücksichtigt werden. Ein Sieg gibt drei Punkte, ein Unentschieden einen und eine Niederlage keinen. Spiele, die im Elfmeterschießen entschieden wurden, werden als Unentschieden gewertet. > Fettgedruckte Länder haben sich für die Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft 2022 qualifiziert, kursiv gesetzte Mannschaften sind bereits ausgeschieden. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/322 "2010-06-17T13:25:41Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The authors speculated that individual sports like tennis would have high fitness variation, while high scoring games like basketball would have lower pure randomness. Who gives a fuck what the authors speculate? Unless they’re doing similar studies on other sports, their paper and their conclusions are worthless. As I already pointed out, any randomness inherent to the World Cup is due to the knockout tournament structure, which is itself a product of the limited time frame. > [@Cardinal](#): > > I anticipated the USA-England game partly for the songs from the English crowd. There wasn’t any, and there seems there won’t be anything but that _freaking noise._ There were only 6,000 tickets sold to English fans for the match, so you wouldn’t have heard them anyway in a 40,000 seat stadium. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/323 "2010-06-17T13:44:57Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > The ability of players to respond, and take advantage of the chaos of the unscripted is what makes a sport complex. No, it’s really not. A fumble is not the most complex play in football; it’s the most simplistic: “Everyone jump on the ball.” Your criteria would seem to rate hacky-sack more complex than chess, which most people would think odd. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/324 "2010-06-17T13:47:05Z")
Well, it _should_ be “everyone jump on the ball”, but it’s actually, “first guy tries to scoop ball up and run with it instead of just diving on it, and 9 times out of 10 winds up batting it back to the other team, and then everyone jumps on the ball”. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/325 "2010-06-17T14:39:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There were only 6,000 tickets sold to English fans for the match, so you wouldn’t have heard them anyway in a 40,000 seat stadium. England fans have perfected the “buy only a small number of tickets beforehand but flood the entire hosting country with fans leading up to the game” strategy. There’d have been far more than 6000 England fans in that stadium. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/326 "2010-06-17T14:48:58Z")
Did you watch the match? The English contingent was definitely less than a quarter of the stadium. It’s not that surprising; England supporters travel well to European venues, but quite poorly anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/327 "2010-06-17T16:38:27Z")
Yet, as I said some pages ago “God Save the Queen” **was** audible above the vuvus. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/328 "2010-06-17T17:09:07Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Anyway, the buzz makes me wish I was there. I’d get swept right up into it. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! [Here ya’ go](http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/boards.straightdope.com). ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/329 "2010-06-17T17:52:44Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > [Here ya’ go](http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/boards.straightdope.com). Tee hee ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/330 "2010-06-17T18:26:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There were only 6,000 tickets sold to English fans for the match, so you wouldn’t have heard them anyway in a 40,000 seat stadium. I’m sorry, but you clearly know bog all about football fans. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/331 "2010-06-17T18:59:33Z")
I think it’s a shame that a fantastic word like vuvuzela (my early pick for word of the year) is associated with these things. If this is part of South African culture or whatever, they should pick a better element to highlight. They make some great music there but instead of that, they’re giving the world stadiums full of constant fucking buzzing no matter what’s happening in the game. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/332 "2010-06-17T19:16:19Z")
It might have been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but is there any viewership data that tells whether the vuvuzela is having an effect on TV ratings? Our apartment was broken into a few months ago, and one of the things my wife has done in response is leave the TV on ESPN during the day (with the idea that a potential burgler would hear sports, think “there’s a guy here”, and move on. No idea if it works, but it keeps her happy). Regardless, we’ve had to change the station because the buzzing was apparently making my dog skittish (she’s a small black dog descended from the N. UK, so I guess that makes her a Skittish Terrier). We didn’t realize this until we turned on the WC this past weekend, heard the buzzing, and our dog just starting barking and snarling at the TV. Sorry, Mackie. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/333 "2010-06-17T19:27:34Z")
I’m going to have to retract my previous support of the buzzing. It is much louder than I originally thought. > [@](#): > > How loud? About as loud as a jet engine at full throttle. And louder than a NASCAR race, a rock concert or a jackhammer, according to researchers who studied the noise level at a South African Premier League match and found it peaked at 144 decibels. That is 4 times louder than a referee’s whistle and it doesn’t stop. I imagine it must be pretty difficult to play under those conditions, not to mention the permanent hearing damage it is causing. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/334 "2010-06-17T22:17:47Z")
Here’s the now-traditional [Downfall parody](http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2010/06/hitlers-take-on-the-vuvuzela). ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/335 "2010-06-18T01:05:55Z")
Now they’ve done it. Hitler seems _pissed_. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/336 "2010-06-18T02:02:48Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > Yet, as I said some pages ago “God Save the Queen” **was** audible above the vuvus. Yes, and it was wonderful to hear something OTHER than buzzing for that small amount of time… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/337 "2010-06-18T02:34:11Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > That’s not sad at all. The cheap plastic horns have turned me anti-South Africa. Nothing makes me happier than knowing they are (likely) eliminated. True. Although the second part’s sad – only fair-weather fans leave when your team is losing. (Even if it’s just at the end) Assholes. Then again, maybe they feel guilty for distracting the players with that fucking noise. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/338 "2010-06-18T03:43:38Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Actually, perhaps I misunderstood (I cannot access the paper). Are they assuming that team quality is constant per season, or did their model somehow show that it is, or something else? I’ve only skimmed the paper: I certainly have not studied it. So take this with a does of salt: In english: No, they are not assuming that team quality is constant per season. They are assuming that a _variable_ which they call quality is constant. Think of it this way: Team strength = Background strength (constant each season) + game-by-game strength. Really, “Quality” is just average strength across a given season, while “Fitness” picks up variation from match to match _within_ a season. The point though is that the fitness effect is washed out by the sheer randomness inherent in low-scoring games. > [@Jack Batty](#): > > You know, for my money, nothing enhances the enjoyment of the beautiful game than 20 years of soccer match data to tease out the effects of team quality (constant per season), fitness (which varies throughout the season) and scoring randomness. It just brings all the excitement right to a head, doesn’t it? All the thrills of a wet blanket! > [@wintertime](#): > > Measure for Measure, what are you trying to say? That winning in football is so random that there is no clear difference between favourites and underdogs? Fair question. My understanding is that Tier 2 teams basically never win. I suspect that the author would argue though that among Tier 1 teams, the odds that the best team triumphs is …28%. It may be true that the World Cup is only delivered to one of the 6 or 8 best teams. But that doesn’t contradict Skinner’s point. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Who gives a fuck what the authors speculate? Unless they’re doing similar studies on other sports, their paper and their conclusions are worthless. No, in their paper their speculation took the form of a recommendation for further work. In my post, their speculation was intended as heuristic: by comparing other sports, you get a better idea of what they were saying about soccer. I should probably end this hijack here. Those wishing to discuss it can visit the game thread, [Trying to like soccer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=567438). ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/339 "2010-06-18T04:03:32Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > [Here ya’ go](http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/boards.straightdope.com). Ha! OK, that’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942/340 "2010-07-07T21:07:19Z")
[Vuvuzela: Will it Blend?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHFA6ZuFTE) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/request-to-all-international-soccer-fans-stop-that-fucking-buzzing/542942.md?page=18)