# Requiring kindergardeners to share things is now apparently a "socialist" idea **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372 "2011-04-22T16:29:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/61 "2011-04-23T13:51:38Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > What do you know. We’ve actually got people advocating the [Ayn Rand School of Parenting](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2010/8/12hague.html) here. How adorable.This sort of rearing is obviously the only sure-fire way to bring up a socially well-adjusted little capitalist. Jumlpin’ Jesus on a Fuckin’ Pogo Stick Please tell me that’s a joke ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/62 "2011-04-23T14:01:30Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > … How adorable.This sort of rearing is obviously the only sure-fire way to bring up a socially well-adjusted little capitalist. Worked for Dexter. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/63 "2011-04-23T19:21:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Anybody care that this is old news? > > _One of those exceptions came in **2003** , when the newly elected Republican governor selected Cheri Yecke, a little-known Bush administration veteran, to produce new educational standards for what students should—and shouldn’t—learn._ Oh, whew. Here I thought we were in a time in which people would be so fearful of the very concept of anything that could be even remotely tied to the concept of socialism that we couldn’t teach even the most basic cooperation to our kids. That the concept of being “socialist” was inherently so scary that anything remotely tied to it would be the downfall of our society. But fortunately this happened years ago, so I think we’re cool. Since then we’ve all come to our senses, and vague references to socialism are no longer used in an attempt to slander people, right? Whew, we dodged a bullet there. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/64 "2011-04-23T20:50:21Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Jumlpin’ Jesus on a Fuckin’ Pogo Stick > Please tell me that’s a joke Yes. McSweeneys is a humor magazine. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/65 "2011-04-23T21:02:21Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I read it and understand it perfectly. Apparently, you didn’t because you are still making the same wrong conclusions. > [@](#): > > And my question still stands unanswered: > > Do you believe that if kindergarteners share supplies they will make the leap to; > “forcefully seizing and redistributing property is the “right thing” to do” > > You made this assertion. I’d like to know if you truly believe it. See, I didn’t make that assertion, **Rigamarole** did. What I did say has been repeated twice now. > [@](#): > > Will you forbid your own children from borrowing any supplies in kindergarten? > If they forget their lunch one day in the years they will spend in school will you instruct them that when a friend offers to share they must refuse and go hungry lest they become part of the socialist disease that is corrupting the nation? None of this has anything to do with what I said, and completely ignores how clear I was that I wasn’t talking about sharing, I was talking about things that are taken away from the owner and given to someone else. Are you not aware of the big difference between those two? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/66 "2011-04-23T21:10:45Z")
Wait, there’s hardcore sex in Atlas Shrugged? Damn, I could never make it past the first chapter without falling asleep, which was a problem because I was trying to read it while on a graveyard shift at work. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/67 "2011-04-24T02:08:26Z")
You clearly referred to his statements in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/68 "2011-04-24T02:20:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Yes. McSweeneys is a humor magazine. The sad thing is that anymore, it’s hard to tell. I could seriously see someone teaching their kid to act like that. ☹ (Remember not too long ago the woman who lectured those girls at a lemonade stand for giving out lemonade for free?) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/69 "2011-04-24T02:57:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > None of this has anything to do with what I said, and completely ignores how clear I was that I wasn’t talking about sharing, I was talking about things that are taken away from the owner and given to someone else. Are you not aware of the big difference between those two? We’re only aware that you’re pants-on-head retarded, love. They’re five year olds, fuckmook ! They lick stray dogs and soil themselves when mildly stressed ! They don’t know what a government is, let alone personal responsibility. _My Little Fountainhead_ is miles above their paygrade. When they don’t have their glue it’s not because they made a sly conscious decision to mooch off the System you drooling imbecile, it’s because Mommy forgot to pack it today. Nor do they go home with a budding notion that the System will take care of them through taxation, they go home thinking Spongebob Squarepants is funny and glue tastes AWESOME. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/70 "2011-04-24T03:09:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > We’re only aware that you’re pants-on-head retarded, love. > > They’re five year olds, fuckmook ! They lick stray dogs and soil themselves when mildly stressed ! They don’t know what a government is, let alone personal responsibility. _My Little Fountainhead_ is miles above their paygrade. When they don’t have their glue it’s not because they made a sly conscious decision to mooch off the System you drooling imbecile, it’s because Mommy forgot to pack it today. Nor do they go home with a budding notion that the System will take care of them through taxation, they go home thinking Spongebob Squarepants is funny and glue tastes AWESOME. So you are saying there is no point in teaching children of that age anything? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/71 "2011-04-24T03:12:20Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So you are saying there is no point in teaching children of that age anything? :eek: You’re not very good at the Internet, are you? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/72 "2011-04-24T03:39:34Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > You’re not very good at the Internet, are you? Good enough to see that you aren’t getting it either. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/73 "2011-04-24T03:42:39Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So you are saying there is no point in teaching children of that age anything? :eek: I’m saying there’s no point trying to teach them things they can not even remotely process or understand yet. 5 year olds are about on the same mental page as pets. Potty training ? Yes. The evils of Marxism ? No. Don’t bite Kevin ? Yes. Dissertation on Randian ethics ? No. ABCs ? Yes. Unabridged War & Peace ? Not quite just yet. Can you dig it ? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/74 "2011-04-24T18:08:07Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > …WTF teacher? My parents paid for that. I didn’t like it much and my parents weren’t too thrilled either… Something similiar happened with crayons in kindergarten. My grandmother bought be a really nice big box of crayons with mulitple shades of each colour. The teacher said it wouldn’t be fair for me to have so many more crayons that the other kids and made them shared crayons. It pissed my mother off enough that she showed up in person the next day and made my teacher give the crayons back to her. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/75 "2011-04-24T19:22:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m saying there’s no point trying to teach them things they can not even remotely process or understand yet. 5 year olds are about on the same mental page as pets. Potty training ? Yes. The evils of Marxism ? No. Don’t bite Kevin ? Yes. Dissertation on Randian ethics ? No. ABCs ? Yes. Unabridged War & Peace ? Not quite just yet. > > Can you dig it ? I’m amazed at your lack of faith at what a 5 year old can learn, or are just not aware of the wide range of things between the ABCs and War & Peace? Obviously a 5 year old is not going to give a dissertation on Randian ethics but they do notice things that “aren’t fair”, like getting their things taken from them without their permission, or even being asked. And judging by the posts here from people who remember this happening to them as young children, I’d say it makes an impression. Or maybe it’s just that today’s 5 year olds are far dumber than 40 years ago? I do know that today’s pets can understand “not fair” - if today’s kindergardeners can’t, that would be rather scary. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/76 "2011-04-24T20:16:57Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I do know that today’s pets can understand “not fair” Oh please, do tell us. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/77 "2011-04-24T20:19:26Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I’m amazed at your lack of faith at what a 5 year old can learn, or are just not aware of the wide range of things between the ABCs and War & Peace? Obviously a 5 year old is not going to give a dissertation on Randian ethics but they do notice things that “aren’t fair”, like getting their things taken from them without their permission, or even being asked. And judging by the posts here from people who remember this happening to them as young children, I’d say it makes an impression. > > Or maybe it’s just that today’s 5 year olds are far dumber than 40 years ago? I do know that today’s pets can understand “not fair” - if today’s kindergardeners can’t, that would be rather scary. When a 5 year old says something is “not fair”, it means “It’s not 100% how\* I\* want it to be”, nothing more. If Kevin has a ball and Billy doesn’t, that’s just not fair. If he has to go beddy-bye at 9PM, that’s so unfair. Being told to eat something that’s neither a burger nor candy, unfair-city ! Come to think about it, maybe that’s not so different from how adults use that word… moving on. Also, without their permission ? For fuck’s sake, they’re 5. Year. Olds. Their entire _existence_ is people telling them what to do, what not to do, and not asking for their input either way because their input is _dumb_ and they don’t know shit. And that’s if they can concentrate on the question for more than 3 seconds. Besides, that’s not what you said. You said, and I quote: > [@](#): > > It’s a better idea to teach them that young that they don’t have to bother to get what they need, that the government will provide? Which is so powerfully, crayon-bitingly, glue-snortingly retarded. It’s like saying if the teacher writes 2+2=4 on the blackboard, then the kids will figure out polynomial equations. They’re barely starting to grasp the concepts of “more” and “less”, and you reckon they’re laying the groundwork on their lives’ ethics codes ? Get the fuck out, you bad sort of person. Finally, and trust me on this, toddlers don’t need any help to intuit how to be nasty, selfish little ankle-biting pricks. It’s getting them to share anything, at all, in any circumstance and being something less than a completely narcissistic sociopath that’s a job and a half. Considering how many people still seem to have trouble coming to grips with the idea well into adult life, I’d say it’s never too early to give it the old college try. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/78 "2011-04-24T21:27:31Z")
Lol, I would love to see an experiment in “The Begum’s Fortune”’‘s style, with one group of hardcore Randians, and the other of Liberal/Socialists. The Socialists would probably discover the Randians’ bones, during one of their courtesy visits to their camp, after only a few weeks into the experiment. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/79 "2011-04-24T23:55:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > When a 5 year old says something is “not fair”, it means “It’s not 100% how\* I\* want it to be”, nothing more. You are boring and apparently purposely incapable of following anything I say, so have fun being a twit all by yourself. I simply am not in the mood to point out all the dumb things in this post you just made. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372/80 "2011-04-25T00:10:33Z")
Sharing is a part of normal socialization, which is important so as to avoid raising children into little curlcoats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/requiring-kindergardeners-to-share-things-is-now-apparently-a-socialist-idea/579372.md?page=5)