Requiring kindergardeners to share things is now apparently a "socialist" idea

The BBQ Pit
281

This is an excellent example - I have never told anyone that they should have aborted their children. What I actually did say was that whoeverthatwas, who got pregnant at a time when she knew she couldn’t support the resulting baby, should not have kept it. Which you all jumped to assume could only mean abortion.

I’m not going to bother going into it any more. You spend all of your time on this with your fingers in your ears going lalalala unless the subject is how much money people are going to be getting just because they figured out how to reproduce.

You can’t eve be bothered to repeat what I say correctly, no matter how many times I repeat it, so again - not going to try.

Well, this one I’ll address. Why is it that this person with $30,000 in debt has more rights than I do? You give them the right to have as many children as they want, whenever they want, without needing to be at all responsible about it. Then you turn around and look at people like me to pay more taxes to bail these parents out. There is no reward for being financially responsible any more - we pay for children their parents cannot afford, we pay to bailout all those people that bought houses they couldn’t afford, we pay to provide drugs to people who can’t afford them, and on and on. You say it’s because an advanced society supports those who are having problems, but how does this translate into rewarding irresponsibility and punishing the responsible?

Yes, I have but you just don’t like them, particularly in your current condition. Anything that suggests that people cannot have as many kids as they want is met with instant freak out.

The subsidized housing in Los Angeles isn’t particularly safe.

Don’t be a twit. I don’t have a problem with supporting people who do something to give back to society other than pump out more children, which I have said over and over and over and…

No, I do not rely on SS, but even if I did that would be immaterial. No, Medicare and SS are not entitlement programs, not on the same lines as welfare for those who never have and never will work. Medicare & SS are rewards for people who worked long enough to earn them and are things that those workers were forced to pay into. If the government wasn’t sucking money out of those programs to fund others, and if Medicare was so horribly mishandled by the government, they probably wouldn’t be in the red.

But fine, let’s just cut all the elderly and disabled people loose to fend for themselves after they’ve spent a few decades supporting your children thru the taxes they paid while working. Because of course, the only thing that matters is your selfish desire to continue to overpopulate the place, right?

282

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, do you ever stop lying? I have never said anything like that at all. I think our public schools are a complete waste of time, effort and money in many places, including the city I live in but that does not translate into me thinking education is worthless - a real education, not the glorified babysitters that too many public schools have become.

Yup, it is and it is another thing I’ve never said. What I have said is people should not take on more debt than you can realistically afford.

Nope and this is a lie that I’ve addressed many times, but you just keep repeating it.

Yeah, right, like I have that sort of power. Which is why I wonder sometimes why you all get so violent about this - I’m not Queen of the Universe, I can’t change anything, why are you all so afraid of what I say?

283

Are you serious?

:dubious:

284

You may not intentionally hijack threads, but threads you post in tend to become all about you.

At this point, both sides are very invested in being right, and people are arguing for the sake of arguing.

285

Yes. I could see upset or maybe even jealous, but humiliated? Do you think a five year old is humiliated because, say, a classmate has more expensive clothes?

That’s not true - in the threads that are on the first page in the Pit, I’ve posted in five or six. In other parts of the Dope, I’ve posted in many threads. Sometimes I don’t even get a response. It is only when what I say triggers some, what?, fear? worry? that a few people have that these train wrecks happen.

Ya know, I don’t really care if I’m right or wrong, I’d just like people to quit with the attitude that children are the be all and end all of human society, and that everyone has the right to have as many as they want, whether it infringes on the rights of others or not.

286

Purely anecdotal, I know, but in the first grade, she broke her crayons in half and shared them with me. I broke that half in half again and shared them with him. Sixty-two years later, we are still in touch, still friends. And we still talk about those crayons.

287

How very sweet! :slight_smile:

288

Well, curlcoat, if nothing else, you can never be accused of having been on welfare yourself. If you had, you’d know it isn’t exactly fun and games. You’d also know that people do get off of it. In fact, you kind of have to anyway, but my mother, and the parents of many of my friends, used it to get them on their feet. It helped my family go, in one generation, from high school graduates to master’s students (I’d go further, but that doesn’t make sense in my profession). Whatever, though. I’ve found that poverty, if it doesn’t grind you down and make you bitter (which it can easily do) makes you a much better, more compassionate person. I think that’s been clearly demonstrated here.

289

Either way, it isn’t your place to question anyone’s reproductive or parenting choices. You don’t have a single shred of knowledge about what led to those choices, what sacrifices and struggles went into living with them, or anything about the structure of the family or the circumstances which led them to their place of hardship.

Your intentional insult to someone who admitted only to struggling financially, and nothing more, is not lessened by time or by your pathetic excuse that you didn’t mean abortion. Whatever you meant, it wasn’t ever your place to judge nor question.

In other words, you have no solutions, you have no alternatives, you have your stock answers and you’re going to throw a temper tantrum because you’re caught with your ass showing.

I don’t give “them” that right, they have that right, period.

And so do you. You could’ve birthed, fostered, adopted or otherwise availed yourself of as many children as you wanted at any given point in time. You made your choice.

And now, like the anti-abortion movement you so allegedly despise, you spend your time condemning the choices of others, but rather than a bogus moral argument, your rantings are predicated on a thin tissue of lies and fabrications, a fantasy of what “irresponsibility” looks like that exists no where but in your own fevered imagination.

As has been demonstrated to you time and again, you aren’t paying “more taxes” to bail “these parents” out. The publicly financed security net for “these parents” represents a minority portion of what your taxes pay for, and those budgets continue to shrink even while the gap between the poor and middle class grows, while class mobility for the middle class is negative (i.e. middle class people become poor vastly more often than they become rich), class mobility for the poor is essentially nonexistent and more and more Americans face financial ruin for reasons completely beyond their control including recession related real estate losses and protracted unemployment.

And in case you hadn’t noticed, no one is paying “more” taxes because there was just a lengthy and ugly battle to ensure that even the absolute richest amongst us enjoyed a federal tax cut this year. If income and other taxes are being raised on Californians it’s because your broken referendum system froze property taxes so as your overheated real estate market (which was a prime driver of the current ruinous state of the national market) unbalanced your entire financial system, nothing could be done to bring it back into parity. And you still can’t blame any of that on Medi-Cal or providing dental checkups to indigent children.

If you want to whine about your tax burden, your ire is misplaced. Your tax burden is what it is because this nation is mired in costly protracted wars that asshole Republicans funded via shitty debt, mostly to China, that we can’t dare default upon, because our Medicare and Medicaid resources are being used up at astronomical rates to prop up a broken for-profit medical system and because we were all played for suckers by an out of control investment banking system that fucked our entire financial system but was so entrenched we had to not only eat the loss, but prop the banks up because the effects of their failure would’ve made things even worse.

And we didn’t pay to bailout a single homeowner who bought a house that they couldn’t afford. People are still losing houses that they could afford when they bought them, but not when the market collapsed from underneath them and in some cases, halved their homes’ value. Mortgage lending banks failed the consumers, not vice-versa, and we bailed out the banks, not the people, while foreclosures hit record highs.

You need to get out of fantasyland, woman. You believe a bunch of hokum that you made up in your dim brain or misread from a headline on World Nut Daily. You believe things that could be shown to be patently untrue by typing five words into a Google search box and reading the top fucking result.

If you’re not willing to ever challenge your ignorant assertions when they’ve been shown to be wrong time and time and time again then what the fuck are you doing here?

290

I thought this was a topic about forcing kids to share.

291

tumbleddown, that rant of yours was brilliant. A perfect 10!

292

So you feel that the people who are paying to raise these kids (the taxpayers) should have no say at all? I am really having a problem understanding why it’s OK with you that people have babies when they have to know they cannot afford to properly raise them. You say you love children - why is it OK with you that generations of kids are being raised on welfare?

She admitted to being on the dole when she had baby number two (or three? Can’t remember now) and that she “had no choice” but to have a keep the baby and take handouts to raise it. I merely pointed out to her that she did have choices other than keeping a baby she couldn’t afford. The fact that you all freaked out then and still do shows that you simply cannot look at this issue with anything approaching rationality.

No, you all who support this give them the right to kids they can’t afford, and take away my right to not pay for it. Those of us who do not like children are not given the right to expect anyone else to pay for anything that we want as deeply as women claim they want children.

Oh please, talk about a strawman! I don’t have any problem with people choosing to have children, it’s when they do it knowing they can’t afford to raise them that I complain. This is the same thing as “your right to swing your fist ends at my nose” in that you are giving those who want children the right to trample on my rights, and has nothing to do with abortions.

Thereby proving my point. The middle class is the one that pays the most in taxes, and the money we pay out to subsidize each generation of poor people just keeps them poor. If we focused less on rewarding them for having babies and more on getting them a real education , the cycle would be broken for more poor families. Instead, education in public schools gets worse and everywhere people are bombarded by ads telling them to buy X, usually on credit, “now, because you deserve it”. So many people are amazingly stupid about money these days - how did that happen? It’s no wonder so many people got sucked into stupid mortgages that they are now upside down on.

Uh, our “overheated real estate market” didn’t force anyone to buy a house they couldn’t afford. As for Prop 13, I fail to see how that “unbalances” anything - there are states without income tax but with property taxes that go up every year. Are they unbalanced?

Wait, what? Medicare and Medicaid money are being paid to private insurance companies?

Really?

Let me know when you manage to show me that something I believe is wrong. You didn’t here.

Nah, it’s about some folks re-justifying their position that people who have babies they know they can’t afford is just fine and dandy. Why they get all het up from one comment I make, I’ll never know.

293

I find the original idea, that forcing somebody to “share” is a socialist idea, quite enough for a rollicking good discussion.

But almost anything to do with children, and teaching them, is fraught with emotion and controversy. Especially when it comes to teaching history, and what society ‘is’, or ‘is supposed to be’. I can’t think of many other things that can really get the fur flying.

294

Thanksgiving must be a whizz-bang.

" Everyone brought their own drumstick? Their own taters? Their own bacon bits? Good. Now shut the fuck up and eat. "

:smiley:

295

That’s probably the problem. They just can’t set aside their emotions to even look at the issues, much less actually think up any solutions. Meanwhile, the middle class sinks into the quicksand…

296

Since this thread apparently refuses to die, in the interest of accuracy I’d like to correct this. The poster in question was not ‘on the dole’ and did not ‘ask the taxpayer to help raise her children’. She availed herself of a state-run children’s health care program, designed specifically for families like hers, while she finished her education. She was not taking any other welfare in any form as far as I recall. She also never said that she had ‘no choice’ but to have the kid - she weighed the options and chose the one that she considered best (I thought you were all for reproductive freedom?).

She was working hard to change her situation and make a better future for her family by finding a good job. I would have thought she’d be one of those ‘acceptable’ poor people to you, but apparently not. But you told her that her children should never have been born - it wasn’t a hypothetical, you were talking about real, actual human beings. The fact that you don’t see why that’s offensive encapsulates the problem with you in a nutshell.

297

Meyer, it will die once you let curlcoat have the last word, remember?

298

Yeah, I know. I just feel the need to correct such blatantly false statements. Fighting ignorance and all. Of course, in this case ignorance has long since won.

299

No worries, I was just joking. I almost want to continually reply to this just so she doesn’t get it. : p

300

As you recall. We are supposed to believe that your recollection of that thread is better than mine? Or that you are even referencing the same thing?

I am all for reproductive freedom as long as it isn’t trampling on the rights of others.

People who chose to have and keep babies they know they cannot afford are not “working hard to change” their situations. Since you all chased her off by insisting that I’d told her that she should have had an abortion, we have no idea if she ever got that job, do we? Hell of a lot harder to get an education and a good job when you have children.

That fact that I didn’t say that encapsulates your ongoing problem in a nutshell.

Go right ahead. It will simply be one of the 74,045,732 threads where I was not the last one to post.