# Rereading Ice and Fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183 "2005-10-21T01:52:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/61 "2005-11-30T12:35:25Z")
How many books will there be all together? Is the author likely to end before the series? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/62 "2005-11-30T13:53:49Z")
> [@lee](#): > > How many books will there be all together? Is the author likely to end before the series? I seem to recall it’s six, seven at the worst. So, 10 to 15 years tops. We can hope it’ll be less. I’m not about 150 pages from the end of my book 3 reread. I guess my big deduction about Selmy wasn’t all that impressive after all. Stupid subconscious. Anyways, I assume that Joffrey and Jaime’s new blades were made from Ice? Something I don’t get. Tyrion is by now convinced that Joffrey sent the assassin after Bran. No motive, though. Anyone? -Joe, thought the Red Wedding was worse the second time around… ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/63 "2005-11-30T14:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Something I don’t get. Tyrion is by now convinced that Joffrey sent the assassin after Bran. No motive, though. Anyone? Jaimie comments on it somewhere… that Joffery probably overheard Robert talking about how it would be better to end Bran’s life. He wanted to do something that his father would approve of. From what I gather, he took any old knife lying around, and it just happened to be Littlefinger’s knife. Which reminds me… Littlefinger claimed that he lost that knife when he put a wager on Jaimie, and Jaimie lost to Loras. He said that Tyrion won it because Tyrion had bet on Loras instead. But Tyrion never did - he put his wager on Jaimie. Littlefinger lied and let Cat believe that Tyrion was behind the plot to kill Bran. So my question is, who won the knife that originally belonged to Littlefinger and ended up being used in the assassin attempt against Bran? And was there a specific reason why Littlefinger pointed the finger at Tyrion? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/64 "2005-11-30T21:46:28Z")
Then again, is there a reason (besides his typical petty hate) that Joffrey’s last action is to point at Tyrion? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/65 "2005-11-30T22:52:35Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Anyways, I assume that Joffrey and Jaime’s new blades were made from Ice? Yes, though… of course Jaime gives his away to Briene of Tarth…renaming it Oathkeeper or something like that. I’m unsure what happens to Joffrey’s blade after he dies…I assume his brother gets it? I have to admit I was a bit disappointed in book 4…mostly with the characters Martin chose to emphasize. I really was hoping for more of my favorite characters but nearly all of them didn’t even put in an appearence. I was also seriously hoping for some Frey asskicking/vengence in this book… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/66 "2005-11-30T23:00:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes, though… > > of course Jaime gives his away to Briene of Tarth…renaming it Oathkeeper or something like that. I’m unsure what happens to Joffrey’s blade after he dies…I assume his brother gets it? > > I have to admit I was a bit disappointed in book 4…mostly with the characters Martin chose to emphasize. I really was hoping for more of my favorite characters but nearly all of them didn’t even put in an appearence. I was also seriously hoping for some Frey asskicking/vengence in this book… > > -XT So…you spoiler book 3 but don’t spoiler book 4? Anyways, the Freys will get theirs, if for no other reason than the chapter right before (or right after) Bran is remembering the story Old Nan told him whose lesson was “the gods hate nobody more than someone who violates guest right”. Anyways, I still haven’t started book 4 (probably not till the weekend due to commitments beyond my control, sadly), but I know it’s supposed to pretty much skip everyone north of the wall. Correct? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/67 "2005-11-30T23:10:15Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Anyways, I still haven’t started book 4 (probably not till the weekend due to commitments beyond my control, sadly), but I know it’s supposed to pretty much skip everyone north of the wall. > > Correct? > > -Joe Considering that pretty much everyone is south of the wall… From the Wikipedia [entry on AFFC](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Feast_for_Crows), a spoiler list of character viewpoints:[ul][li]Prologue: Pate, a novice of the maesters in Oldtown.[_]The Prophet, The Drowned Man: Aeron “Damphair” Greyjoy[_]The Captain of the Guards: Areo Hotah, Captain of Guards to Prince Doran Martell of Dorne[_]Cersei Lannister[_]Brienne of Tarth[_]Samwell Tarly[_]Arya Stark, later referred to as “Cat of the Canals”[_]Jaime Lannister[_]Alayne Stone: Sansa Stark, undercover as Lord Petyr Baelish’s bastard daughter[_]The Kraken’s Daughter: Asha Greyjoy[_]The Soiled Knight: Ser Arys Oakheart of the Kingsguard[_]The Iron Captain, The Reaver: Victarion Greyjoy[_]The Queenmaker, The Princess in the Tower: Arianne Martell[/ul][/li] Major characters not included:Davos, Stannis, Jon, Dany, Tyrion … well, everyone not in the list above. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/68 "2005-11-30T23:11:32Z")
Sorry…didn’t meant to spoil anything. Appologies. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/69 "2005-12-01T00:42:59Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes, though… > > I was also seriously hoping for some Frey asskicking/vengence in this book… I expect that’ll happen soon, in Westeros time. Remember that After Jaime successfully takes over Riverrun he’s talking to a singer who says he’ll stay there. That was Tom o’ Sevens, one of Dondarrion’s men, and I’m guessing he’s some sort of plant for the resurrected Catelyn. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/70 "2005-12-01T00:46:00Z")
D’oh! Can someone report that horrible case of coding? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/71 "2005-12-01T01:45:43Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Then again, is there a reason (besides his typical petty hate) that > > Joffrey’s last action is to point at Tyrion? No, but Joffery is a brat and a monster and an idiot. Littlefinger is no idiot, whatever else he might be, and there is always some reason behind what he does. Having had some time to reflect on my own question, I am now assuming that it was just to make trouble for the Lannisters in general. After all, he’s the one who told Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and then tell Cat that the Lannisters did it. I suppose that in his quest for power, one of his goals would be to bring general ruin upon House Lannister. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/72 "2005-12-01T04:02:26Z")
Do we ever find out exactly WHY all the dragons died out? Did it have something to do with the doom or is it another puzzle that hasn’t been explained yet? Anyone want to speculate on who the three heads of the dragon will be? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/73 "2005-12-01T04:57:50Z")
In her very first chapter in _A Game of Thrones_, Daenerys walks across a mural displaying the Doom of Valyria. So while we don’t know the Doom was, it’s something that can be represented in mural form. As for the dragons, we don’t know why they went extinct on a worldwide basis, but we do know what happened to the last line of dragons. Aegon the Conqueror had the only three surviving dragons when he took over Westeros. His three dragons were huge. After that, however, the Targaryens built the dragon pit in King’s Landing. Dragons were raised indoors, which stunted their growth and made them ill. There’s suspicion that the last dragon was poisoned. ---
**Author:** ![QuizCustodet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ba0ec/32.png) [@QuizCustodet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuizCustodet)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/74 "2005-12-01T09:14:13Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > In her very first chapter in _A Game of Thrones_, Daenerys walks across a mural displaying the Doom of Valyria. So while we don’t know the Doom was, it’s something that can be represented in mural form. As for the dragons, we don’t know why they went extinct on a worldwide basis, but we do know what happened to the last line of dragons. Aegon the Conqueror had the only three surviving dragons when he took over Westeros. His three dragons were huge. After that, however, the Targaryens built the dragon pit in King’s Landing. Dragons were raised indoors, which stunted their growth and made them ill. There’s suspicion that the last dragon was poisoned. Further, in A Feast for Crows, at least one character suggests that the Maesters of the Citadel are responsible for the death of the dragons, as the magic inherent in them is anti-thetical to the rationality of the Citadel. Speculation relevant to the Tower of Joy theory of Jon’s parentage: To what extent does Targaryen blood carry with it the power to command dragons? I would love to see Danaerys turn up at the wall and have one of her dragons fall for Jon Snow. It’d certainly be handy for the Night Watch, as I suspect dragon-fire would be even better than dragon glass against Others. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/75 "2005-12-01T12:44:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Anyone want to speculate on who the three heads of the dragon will be? I was wondering that myself. One to dread, one to bed and one to wed - is that right? It seems odd, though. Dany has three dragons - assuming she rides one, wouldn’t it make sense for her to have two partners and not three? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/76 "2005-12-03T08:35:54Z")
Thinking back on Beric and Stannis and who actually is Azor Ahai: it strikes me that NEITHER has “Lightbringer”. Stannis has a sword that glows and looks pretty. People have said that since Beric’s sword had heat with it, that’s the sword, but it obviously can’t be because it breaks during the ‘trial’ with Sandor. That’s how Beric dies his 6th death, a savage blow when Sandor is all but finished snaps Beric’s sword in half and keeps going through where the shoulder meets the neck. I think Beric has a way of lighting swords which is very interesting, but the fire weakens the sword he has (and I’d assume that wouldn’t happen with Lightbringer. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/77 "2005-12-03T09:08:30Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Thinking back on Beric and Stannis and who actually is Azor Ahai: > > it strikes me that NEITHER has “Lightbringer”. Stannis has a sword that glows and looks pretty. People have said that since Beric’s sword had heat with it, that’s the sword, but it obviously can’t be because it breaks during the ‘trial’ with Sandor. That’s how Beric dies his 6th death, a savage blow when Sandor is all but finished snaps Beric’s sword in half and keeps going through where the shoulder meets the neck. I think Beric has a way of lighting swords which is very interesting, but the fire weakens the sword he has (and I’d assume that wouldn’t happen with Lightbringer. Obviously (to me), _neither_ is Azor Ahai. The question was, are Thoros or Mellisandre true prophets? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/78 "2005-12-03T19:06:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Obviously (to me), _neither_ is Azor Ahai. The question was, are Thoros or Mellisandre true prophets? I guess my post was a response to those who do see Beric as Azor Ahai come again (reading some older threads [which I didn’t participate because I juuuuust finished reading “A Storm of Swords”], it seemed that some had that notion). I think the best person to fulfill the prophecy would be Dany. Then again, it’d be pretty cool, IMO, if no one in the books was Azor Ahai come again and it continues to be an unfulfilled prophecy. As for the question of Thoros or Mellisandre being true prophets, that is a more difficult question (since we don’t know what the, I guess, central tenants of the cult of R’hillor are). I guess in some respects Mellisandre’s explination of shadow makes some sense, but doesn’t sit well, because well… it’s a shadow! Thoros can bring people back to life, but we don’t know if Mellisandre can either. She may be able to do so herself, but it doesn’t seem there is anyone that died that she’d want to resurrect. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/79 "2005-12-03T20:42:27Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I guess my post was a response to those who do see Beric as Azor Ahai come again (reading some older threads [which I didn’t participate because I juuuuust finished reading “A Storm of Swords”], it seemed that some had that notion). I think the best person to fulfill the prophecy would be Dany. Then again, it’d be pretty cool, IMO, if no one in the books was Azor Ahai come again and it continues to be an unfulfilled prophecy. That’s assuming that the Azor Ahai myth is anything more than, well, a myth. The fact that some people believe in it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. Myself, I doubt R’hallor even exists, nor any other god. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183/80 "2005-12-03T21:21:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s assuming that the Azor Ahai myth is anything more than, well, a myth. The fact that some people believe in it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. Myself, I doubt R’hallor even exists, nor any other god. Well of course it may just be a myth, but that doesn’t mean that such a person did not exist. I doubt myself any Gods really do exist, but that doesn’t mean heroic champions didn’t exist, though they may have been exaggerated. I think the implication is that the resurrected Azor Ahai will come, but I think it’d be kinda cool if the resurrection of Azor Ahai is someone who comes later than our story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rereading-ice-and-fire/327183.md?page=5)