# \[Research Finds Dogs Understand Language\] Does this mean we have to stop eating them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692 "2004-06-10T20:04:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/1 "2004-06-10T20:04:15Z")
[http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040610/D83468OG0.html](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040610/D83468OG0.html) Research Finds Dogs Understand Language This is totally spooky, especially the part where the dog reasons by exclusion to learn a new word. As an enthusiastic carnivore, do I have to lower the threshold of restraint ?(I don’t eat primates) And Ray Charles has died too young. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/2 "2004-06-10T20:35:08Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** What’s that, girl? Timmy’s fallen down the well again?!? No!–There’s a thread in GD whose title doesn’t make the contents very clear! Well, I’d better edit that, then! ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/3 "2004-06-10T20:42:34Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > \*Does this mean we have to stop eating them? What is this “we” thing? Most of “we” don’t eat dog. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/4 "2004-06-10T20:50:10Z")
While I hate to fall back on popular culture, I believe it was one very wise Jedi who once said, with much accuracy, “the ability to speak does not make you intelligent.” ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/5 "2004-06-10T20:52:51Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Moderator’s Note:** What’s that, girl? Timmy’s fallen down the well again?!? No!–There’s a thread in GD whose title doesn’t make the contents very clear! Well, I’d better edit that, then! WOOF!(EDITORS, PFOOI) woofwooofwooof!!(everyone’s a critic nowadays) woofwoof, woowoowoofwoof(it was SUPPOSED to be a teaser…) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/6 "2004-06-10T20:55:44Z")
We always knew that dogs could learn _words_, which is what that article talks about - it’s just the number that is of interest. Knowing and responding to these individual sounds is not an understanding of language. It’s just as easy to train a dog to stand when you say ‘sit’ and vice versa as it is to train them the correct way. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/7 "2004-06-10T21:03:38Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > We always knew that dogs could learn _words_, which is what that article talks about - it’s just the number that is of interest. Knowing and responding to these individual sounds is not an understanding of language. It’s just as easy to train a dog to stand when you say ‘sit’ and vice versa as it is to train them the correct way. Well, remember that you are the one teaching the language. It’s not your dog’s fault if you lie to him, and then say nyah, nyah, nyah you dunce, your not sitting, that thing is called standing. that said, what they describe is PRECISELY understanding what language is; the dog has created an abstraction named:toy names, which he is able to map to a set of objects as a class (toys) within which he has an empirical screen (have I seen this toy before) and then he closes the circle to make the abstraction into specific instructions. I say we shouldn’t eat’em. btw, I live in chinatown, autres temps, autres moeurs. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/8 "2004-06-10T21:13:41Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > that said, what they describe is PRECISELY understanding what language is; the dog has created an abstraction named:toy names, which he is able to map to a set of objects as a class (toys) within which he has an empirical screen (have I seen this toy before) and then he closes the circle to make the abstraction into specific instructions. They’re doing nothing of the sort. It’s straightforward conditioning (heard of Pavlov?) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/9 "2004-06-10T21:15:45Z")
I should elaborate - there’s too many variables. Particularly the tone of voice, which could be conditioned as a ‘fetch’ command no matter what words were being said. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/10 "2004-06-10T21:18:16Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > Well, remember that you are the one teaching the language. It’s not your dog’s fault if you lie to him, and then say nyah, nyah, nyah you dunce, your not sitting, that thing is called standing. > that said, what they describe is PRECISELY understanding what language is; the dog has created an abstraction named:toy names, which he is able to map to a set of objects as a class (toys) within which he has an empirical screen (have I seen this toy before) and then he closes the circle to make the abstraction into specific instructions. I think this is the most coherent post I’ve ever seen by you. O\_o 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/11 "2004-06-10T21:20:08Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > They’re doing nothing of the sort. It’s straightforward conditioning (heard of Pavlov?) Curious; this isn’t my field. What makes it not conditioning for us to relate a word to an object or feeling, but makes it so for a dog? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/12 "2004-06-10T21:28:11Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I think this is the most coherent post I’ve ever seen by you. O\_o 🙂 It’s early in the day… ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/13 "2004-06-10T21:55:32Z")
**Gorillaman** check this site [http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99995101](http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99995101) for more information on how this goes beyond Pavlov conditioning. The dog associates a novel word with a new toy in a group of learnt toys, and in a later experiment still associates the same word with the same toy in a group of some known and some unknown toys. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/14 "2004-06-10T22:00:11Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Curious; this isn’t my field. What makes it not conditioning for us to relate a word to an object or feeling, but makes it so for a dog? precisely the aforereferenced construction of an abstract class from the empirical conditioning. next the ability to manipulate those abstract classes (note the superimposition of the screen of the dog’s past interaction with the class, “toys”–ie, not the specific toy or word associated with it. it’s the GENERALIZATION (there, is that enough caps for a while…) that ;makes it jaw dropping. so now he has a class constructed out of empirical associations, and he has a second class, constructed out of his FUCKING MEMORY, (PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE SACRED BABY JESUS,SAVE US!! and through REASONING, (holy shit!) he knows which toy matches the new word. And gorillaman is not impressed? See, those primates give themselves airs… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/15 "2004-06-10T22:02:42Z")
What the thread title should say, ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/16 "2004-06-10T22:07:38Z")
I still maintain that there’s gaping holes in the experiment. For example, what happened if a name not associated with _any_ toy was called out? And I still maintain that tone of voice would be crucial. The tone of voice can indicate ‘fetch’ by itself - and if there is no connection between the sound and the toys the dog knows, then fetching the unfamiliar one would make sense. And even if I’m wrong on the above points, the dog’s still a long way from ‘understanding language’. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/17 "2004-06-10T22:22:55Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > And even if I’m wrong on the above points, the dog’s still a long way from ‘understanding language’. And then, how does “understanding language” relate to intelligence and not eating something? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/18 "2004-06-10T22:30:25Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I still maintain that there’s gaping holes in the experiment. For example, what happened if a name not associated with _any_ toy was called out? > language’. that’s exactly what they did. they called out a name the dog had never heard for a toy he had never seen. he came back with the right one. con respetto, did you read the cite? ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/19 "2004-06-10T22:33:08Z")
Intelligence has nothing to do with tastiness. Indeed, ingesting may just be the highest form of flattery. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692/20 "2004-06-10T22:34:20Z")
We learned fairly quickly that Iraqis understood language, but this didn’t keep us from beating the crap out of them with some regularity. We knew that negroes understood language, but you’ll notice it took a civil war to make us quit using them as farm equipment. We know that women understand language, but some places still won’t promote 'em above middle management. None of which has anything to do with _eating_ them, though. (stands clear and ducks for the inevitable offcolor joke…) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/research-finds-dogs-understand-language-does-this-mean-we-have-to-stop-eating-them/249692.md?page=2)