# "Reserved for Energy-Efficient Vehicles" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590 "2014-05-03T17:05:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/61 "2014-05-06T14:48:27Z")
I prefer to park as far away from the store as possible anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/62 "2014-05-06T15:07:00Z")
I’d obviously be fine with them if they were for charging points. Otherwise, well, I guess I can see the utility in encouraging use of energy-efficient cars, but 12 spaces would be ridiculous right now in a parking lot which only needed half that in disabled spaces, so we can guess at the size. That’s why I’m fairly sure this is a hypothetical, not a real world thing, despite you saying “they sure do.” > [@DCnDC](#): > > [They](http://windward.hawaii.edu/Parking/Energy_Efficient_Parking.jpg) [sure](http://roadwarrior.blogs.pressdemocrat.com/files/2011/06/parking.jpg) [do](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/P4010072-Hybrid_Parking_Only-Clovis_CA.jpg). Are those definitely nothing to do with charging spots? They seem like random searches. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/63 "2014-05-06T15:21:19Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I’d obviously be fine with them if they were for charging points. Otherwise, well, I guess I can see the utility in encouraging use of energy-efficient cars, but 12 spaces would be ridiculous right now in a parking lot which only needed half that in disabled spaces, so we can guess at the size. That’s why I’m fairly sure this is a hypothetical, not a real world thing, despite you saying “they sure do.” > > Are those definitely nothing to do with charging spots? They seem like random searches. LEV and ULEV cars are pretty common. My last Civic had a ULEV sticker on the side window. I didn’t even notice it until I had the car for about a year. [Here’s a list I found](http://parking.uncg.edu/docs/LEV.pdf). Don’t get me wrong, I think if someone is putting those signs in their lot, they’re not expecting you to park you’re 98 Corolla with 200,000 miles on it there, but if we’re going to follow the rules, it’s got the little LEV decal so it’s got as much right as the Prius or the Volt, right? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/64 "2014-05-06T15:23:03Z")
I park way out to avoid door-dingers so not a debate for me. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/65 "2014-05-06T15:54:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > What I don’t get here is the sense of entitlement. A lot of people feel free to go against the property owners wishes (and in some cases, apparently take glee in it) because…it’s a good spot? And they feel like they have a right to it? Really? If the property owners’ wishes were to only serve whites should we abide by that? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/66 "2014-05-06T16:00:12Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Sounds like we can attribute your actions to malice then. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/67 "2014-05-06T16:04:31Z")
Didn’t read the whole thread closely so I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, but those signs are put in there solely for [LEED certification](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_in_Energy_and_Environmental_Design). In order to get that certification, a building owner gets points for having various energy efficient things. Throwing up a[couple of signs for fuel efficient vehicles](http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/go-ahead-and-park-in-those-fuel-efficient-vehicle-space-1350568794) costs next to nothing and nets them a couple of points for their certification. They have no interest in enforcing the rule. In that second link there’s a link to a PDF that lists all the vehicles LEED considers to be fuel efficient. I haven’t read it, because who cares. Just park where you want. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/68 "2014-05-06T16:04:37Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > If the property owners’ wishes were to only serve whites should we abide by that? Race is a protected class, so no. Furthermore, being white doesn’t have any particular social value, whereas other people driving efficient vehicles helps everyone and is universally a good thing. Is that the best you got? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/69 "2014-05-06T16:07:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Didn’t read the whole thread closely so I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned, but those signs are put in there solely for [LEED certification](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_in_Energy_and_Environmental_Design). In order to get that certification, a building owner gets points for having various energy efficient things. Throwing up a[couple of signs for fuel efficient vehicles](http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/go-ahead-and-park-in-those-fuel-efficient-vehicle-space-1350568794) costs next to nothing and nets them a couple of points for their certification. They have no interest in enforcing the rule. > > In that second link there’s a link to a PDF that lists all the vehicles LEED considers to be fuel efficient. I haven’t read it, because who cares. Just park where you want. That’s interesting. Bet they don’t require two spaces for every disabled space, though. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/70 "2014-05-06T16:22:55Z")
Park 10-20 spots back and walk the damned whole one or two hundred feet (as though it’s so far) unless health reasons dictate otherwise. It’s not going to kill you. They make shopping carts for a reason. I’ve never understood people who have some sort of entitled need to be within 25 feet of the store door. Man, you people don’t do that really annoying parking spot hover too, do you? Where instead of just parking 8 spots back where there’s a free spot you sit there until some poor shmuck has finally cleared their coveted parking space and you can take it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/71 "2014-05-06T16:25:06Z")
There are two completely separate questions here, which I think a lot of people are confusing: Do you agree with the store-owner’s decision, and do you respect it. It’s possible to think that the store owner shouldn’t put up such signs, and that he’s shooting himself in the foot and losing customers over it, while still recognizing that he has a right to decide how his own parking lot is used. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/72 "2014-05-06T16:28:13Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Nope. So then the other one. OK. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/73 "2014-05-06T17:01:35Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > That’s interesting. Bet they don’t require two spaces for every disabled space, though. It probably depends. With straight in parking you can have two vehicle spots with a shared “loading area” because someone can back in if needed. With angle parking and one-way aisles, you might need a 1:1 ratio. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/74 "2014-05-06T17:24:54Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > It would make more sense to have reserved parking for gas-guzzlers, rather than forcing them to circle the parking lot looking for an open space wasting even more precious resources. Oh, we all know who drives gas guzzlers, and why. They’re gonna be circling the parking lots looking for spaces even if there ARE spaces reserved for them, because they’re really not all that bright. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/75 "2014-05-06T17:30:03Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > It probably depends. With straight in parking you can have two vehicle spots with a shared “loading area” because someone can back in if needed. With angle parking and one-way aisles, you might need a 1:1 ratio. I don’t actually know what that means ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/76 "2014-05-06T19:09:28Z")
This is one of those questions that people will see differently, depending on where they live. Here in Arizona, the lots are hardly ever full. So you have to walk an extra 50 feet? Big deal, even in 120 summer days. But Los Angeles? That’s a whole 'nother story! When I lived there, there were times that there was not a single spot in the entire parking lot! And even Wal Mart/Home Depot/supermarket sized lots. Most of the time you HAD to hover, otherwise you’d never get a spot. So tying up spaces for special people is just asking for misuse of the reserved spot. And I was surprised that 30 mpg was sufficient for fuel efficient. My turbo Mini S gets 32. Woot! I qualify! Take that, Prius! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/77 "2014-05-07T00:32:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are two completely separate questions here, which I think a lot of people are confusing: Do you agree with the store-owner’s decision, and do you respect it. It’s possible to think that the store owner shouldn’t put up such signs, and that he’s shooting himself in the foot and losing customers over it, while still recognizing that he has a right to decide how his own parking lot is used. Right. Agreement is pretty broad (albeit not universal) that the property owner decision is silly (unless required for LEED certification). A bit less broad that it is the property owner’s decision to make, even if it is a bad one. OTOH some believe that they are the special little snowflakes whose opinions trump what the property owner decides should happen on his/her property. The owner puts up the sign but must not really mean it … and owners don’t apparently have the right do that which these special snowflakes disagree with. The owners stated rules don’t apply to them: > [@ZenBeam](#): > > If a single person puts up a sign like that on his driveway, I’d attribute that to him just being an asshole. If a corporation has signs in their parking lot, I’d attribute that to corporate bureaucracy, probably appeasing some group or other … ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/78 "2014-05-07T00:58:06Z")
OP here. Full disclosure: I don’t know if this adds anything to the overall ongoing discussion, but just some background on what inspired the question. I work on a military base, and the parking spaces in question were at the the Navy Exchange (NEX). I work on Saturdays, and on Saturdays I drive over to the NEX and hit the food court inside. I’m just running in to get a sandwich at Subway. I drive a decidedly non-energy-efficient Crown Victoria, and I park in the “Reserved for Energy-Efficient Vehicles” spaces because they are almost always free and there doesn’t appear to ever be any enforcement. This being a military base I’m guessing they can create and rigidly enforce any rules they please, but this particular one they don’t appear to give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/79 "2014-05-07T01:04:59Z")
As you describe the issue the question is more broadly phrased: would you be a scofflaw if you are pretty sure you would get away with it? And how much does your agreement or disagreement with the law/rule in question impact that choice? Correct? ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590/80 "2014-05-07T01:06:41Z")
I will honor the signage / wishes of the property owner. If I think they are idiotic ideas / decisions then I will choose to take my business elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reserved-for-energy-efficient-vehicles/687590.md?page=5)