Residential vs. Commercial Generators

The 50 A receptacle is 100% proper. I can plug my welder into it. What is improper about it?

The cable, OTOH, is very improper. I am the only one who messes with it. :slight_smile:

Never done it myself, but I’ve heard of folks hooking their generator to the air conditioner disconnect with jumper cables. That’s even worse than the suicide cord.

I guess the answer is “you never know”.
I suppose you could have an improperly bonded generator and there may be a ground loop introduced into the circuit. The system is looking for a ground reference, and if that happens to be the back through the mains out to the pole…
It’s not likely, but during my 30 some years as an electrician I’ve seen stranger things.

I should add, that with a properly installed and bonded service this would never happen. But if you were to hook up the generator with the suicide plug into your buddy’s house down the road (whose done numerous DIY projects including swapping out his main panel among other things) you might have an issue.

The neutral is bonded to earth ground at the main panel and it is bonded to earth ground at the transformer, i.e. it’s “double grounded.” If both of these connections somehow failed, anyone touching the neutral would certainly get zapped, but not because my generator is connected to my house; they would get zapped due to leakage between the transformer’s primary and secondary. They would get zapped even if the generator were not connected.

It is simply not possible for my generator to be responsible for causing someone to get zapped by touching the neutral wire coming from my house.

He’s right. Where is the circuit?

If the generator is tied to the house wiring, there are two connections to that wiring, hot and ground/neutral. (both ground and neutral are tied together at at least one point, inside the main panel, and sometimes also in the generator)

If CrafterMan remembers to turn off his main breaker, then one of those connections is broken. There is no longer a hot connection to anything outside his house. This is the reason I suggested an interlock kit - if he had one, he wouldn’t have to remember or possibly have someone else screw this up.

This is a common problem with most DIY electrical work - the home handymen are already saving at least 2/3 the cost, yet they skimp on trivially cheap fittings and electrical boxes and so on and basically create a hazard, like CrafterMan has done.

The right stuff is available for very little money. If he used SquareD for his replacement panel, hereare official interlock kits for under $60.

Then hereis a proper outdoor rated receptacle for $48.

See, another hazard he has created, not only does he risk electrocuting linemen, himself, others that are near the male to male outlet if the cord falls out, but also with the receptacle located inside he’s created a risk of suffocation or damaging the power cord.

I bet he didn’t use conduit, either.

I know it’s splitting hairs, but I remember some such information when I took a generator class a long time ago. It sticks with me.

From this site

http://www.cliffordpower.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/0/f263c18230f10d38d74d961b03cade3f/misc/is_03_switching_neutral1.pdf

Review and let me know what you think, Crafterman, as I respect your grasp of such things.

The other thing to consider.

If your neighbor is also running a generator and he doesn’t open the main while back-feeding his panel, your panel may be the source of his equipment ground due to poorly installed/damaged equipment on his property. Especially if you share the same point of connection on the pole.

Remember, if you’re at the point where using a generator is necessary there could be damaged power lines, poles, grounds, transformers and such on the utility side of things. You have to treat your little power source as it’s own separately derived system, grounding, bonding and all.

Keep in mind that the actual, official, UL listed installations leave the neutral connected. Technically to be completely compliant the generator frame is not supposed to be bonded to the neutral, which it is for most off the shelf generators. (but often they design them where you can correct this)

The advantages of the proper setup vs the way Crafterman has it :

a. The interlock kit is a piece of metal forcing you to turn off the main before you can energize the breaker to the generator inlet.
b. The generator inlet should be installed outside so that the cord will be a reasonably short length and the generator will have good ventilation.
c. The generator inlet is female pins (only safe with an interlock kit). That prevents the risk of the generator cord coming loose at the inlet and exposing male prongs. Also, the generator plugs and inlets tend to be very robust and outdoor rated.

Mine’s (essentially) graphic 1 - the neutral at my generator is not grounded.

Trust me, there’s no current on the neutral between the main panel and the transformer. :slight_smile:

Now is my system legal? As I mentioned above, of course not; the biggest no-no is the suicide cable. But it works, I know what I am doing, and I am not going to change a thing.

I installed this setup a few years ago. It insures that I can’t run the house on generator power with the mains still connected to the box. All in, I was at about $250, and 3 hours of my time. It would have been shorter, but I forgot to buy a box ferrule and had to go back to the hardware store… twice. Once to pick out the part, and once to bring my wallet to pay for it.

Now it’s a simple process to bring out the generator, secure it to the porch with a chain, hook it up and power the house. So simple my wife could do it from a checklist having only seen it done once.

We have to be careful on what power we use concurrently, but it’ll run everything in the house. (No hairdryer, while running the dish washer and making toast while someone is running a bath… etc…)

And yet the GE generator panel with the tie breaker switches I bought and installed when I updated my house 15 years ago makes no provisions for breaking the neutral circuits.