# Resolved: 90% of religious people **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854 "2003-08-22T03:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/61 "2003-08-23T12:18:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > **(becase you can’t be both a theocracy and an economic superpower–one or the other, but not both).** Well, maybe. Part of the problem with saying that is that actual theocracies are pretty rare. You could point out 16th/17th century Spain. It wasn’t a theocracy, but religion played a pretty major role in society and government, and it was an economic superpower. Closer to a theocracy would be the Abbasid Caliphate, also an economic superpower. It wasn’t exactly a theocracy, but like the name implies, the government did draw its legitimacy from a religious claim. Then, you have Pharaonic Egypt, where the Pharaohs were actually considered to be gods. They were certainly the dominant economic superpower in Mediterranian for some time. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/62 "2003-08-23T16:43:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*Bricker: I asked 344 random people if they are religious. \*\* And how did you select these supposedly “random” people? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/63 "2003-08-23T16:50:59Z")
And how many actually were religious? Because your real sample size consists of the religious people you interviewed, not the ones you disqualified. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/64 "2003-08-23T16:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > > * * * > > Yeah, it (the first amendment to the Constitution) does. While exact phrase is not used in the constitution, the constitution says religion and government are to be kept separate. \*\* Not true. The First Amendment actually says, > [@](#): > > “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” It says nothing about _separation_ of church and state, except insofar as it prevents the _government_ from interefering with church affairs or establishing any _particular_ religion. This is a far cry from actually separating the two. Mind you, I’m not arguing against SOCAS. However, let’s not pretend that the First Amendment actually says that church and state are to be kept completely separate. It says no such thing. > [@](#): > > \*\* > That’s what it means, and the only debate about that is among religious people who don’t like the idea of government and church not being one and the same. \*\* Nonsense. You’ll find very few religious people who insist that church and government should be one and the same entity. By and large, the complaints about SOCAS are that it has been intepreted so broadly as to infringe excessively on religious expression and religious freedom. Now, one might disagree with this assessment, but it’s still vastly different from insisting that church and government should be “one and the same.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/65 "2003-08-23T21:09:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*Bricker: _I asked 344 random people if they are religious. If they said no, i didn’t go to question 2_. If they said yes, i asked if they would approve of a plaque, statue, or other physical symbolic display representing their religion prominently displayed on US government property (yes or no). I then asked “name any religion that 1) is not yours, and 2) that you know little about?” I then took that answer and asked whether they would approve of a marble statue representing solely that religion prominently displayed at the city hall of their town (yes or no). \*\* If you asked 344 people, you can’t assert anything. 344 people is not a significant statistical sample of any religion, except any religion that has around 34,400 believers, and that would only be valid if **every single person you asked was of the religion with 34,400 believers**. You also didn’t ask the atheists, which means that there is no control sample. In any case, the religious people who answered that they would approve of a statue of their religion only placed on public property are not necessarily morons, just hypocrites. They might _be_ morons, but you haven’t proven that. Nex time you do a survey, **Kalt** , be more careful. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/66 "2003-08-23T21:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*Nine out of ten religious people support monuments/displays representing their own (but not someone else’s) religion on public property. For example, 9 out of 10 christians will support a 10 commandments monument at a courthouse, but 0 out of 10 christians will support statue of Mohammad at a courthouse. Conversely, 9 out of 10 muslims support the latter but not the former. Others already replied with the right information on your “muslim comment”. But since I’m around and reading this, you make me very curious… Where on earth did you find your source for this incredible laughable statement? > [@](#): > > Why are religious people so stupid (or at least 90% of them)? Is it inbreeding or does being religious all by itself encourage brain atrophy (since “religion has all the answers” and thus religious people are not encouraged to think)? I don’t know… I’m born with only one functioning braincell but I suppose it was there before my birth and thus previous to my exposure to the dangers of religions. Yes, I do mean religionS since my father had an other one then my mother. But you can’t imagine how happy I 'm right now… I guess you gave me now the explanation on questions that hunt me since my braincell was old enough to start reasoning: Why oh why am I such a lunatic? You are a miracle: You saved me. I can sleep again. Thank you so very much. Do you have a bank account? Because since I am Muslim and the command to do good at other humans reigns, I must think now about all the other people on the globe who suffer from the Religion Disease. From now on I’m going to fund your entire life so that you are free of every kind of financial worries that might be possible or might occur. One never knows in life, no? You are a unique saviour. You must be able to spend all the time you want on practicing this life saving therapy for free on all those who are desperately in need of it. Salaam. A. Yes other posters, I’m on my way to heaven with this immense display of brotherhood and charity… Oh… No… there seems to be no heaven at all… Forgot… Oh well, you can’t have it all ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/67 "2003-08-23T22:31:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Kalt_ > Nine out of ten religious people support monuments/displays representing their own (but not someone else’s) religion on public property. > [@](#): > > 62 percent of respondents in a newly released poll for the First Amendment Center in Washington supported allowing public officials to post the Ten Commandments in public buildings. – [The teen, an alderman and Ten Commandments](http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/17/Worldandnation/The_teen__an_alderman.shtml), [_The St. Petersburg Times_](http://www.sptimes.com/) Over 30% of the population of the U.S. are now atheists! Hallelujah! (If you’ll pardon the expression.) > [@](#): > > It’s not about spoken vs. carved. It’s about government official and government property. You as a private citizen can go stand there and say whatever you want, but if you were an elected official you could not. It’s very simple. Has nothing to do with the format. It is cut and dry, but many people still stupidly believe it is okay for **their** religious symbols to be displayed on government property. Go stick it on your front law. Put it in your house or your church, but keep it off of the people’s property. There’s a huge difference between private property and public property, but unfortunately sticking jesus figures on your own private property doesn’t give one a religious hard-on. Only sticking it (no pun intended) on public property makes religious zealots horny. Why is that? Because it’s the forbidden fruit. Temptation of the devil. Something like that. But couldn’t posting religious symbols on your front lawn be construed as attempting to proselytize, which [you have argued should be against the law](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91122)? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doctor Jackson \* > The US Constitution prohibits Congress from making **any** law “respecting an establishment of religion or the free exercise therof, or abridging the freedom of speech…”. How, then, can it be illegal to put anyone’s religious symbols on any public grounds? Constitutionally it can’t be. How, then, do we handle this issue? That is the question we must now answer as a country. Any answer will be far reaching in it’s consequences. Hey, nobody said our system of government would be easy. So, the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment means that a group of Christians can march into a synagogue and put up a big old cross? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arcite \* > I’d love to see a cite showing even one single person calling for a formally established national Christian church. It’s always dangerous to ask for a cite showing if “even one single person” is calling for something: > [@](#): > > It is the contention of this paper that the historic Presbyterian view of the necessity for the establishment of Presbyterianism as the official religion of every society is the Scriptural view, and it is the task of this paper to demonstrate that truth to the current generation of Christians. – [Michael G. Wagner, “A Presbyterian Political Manifesto: Presbyterianism and Civil Government”](http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualnls/PresbPol.htm) I’ve been from one end of the Internet to the other. I’ve seen a lotta strange things. Too many to ever ask for a cite showing if “even one single person” has espoused a particular idea. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/68 "2003-08-23T22:40:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jackelope \* > \*\*And by the way, what about us atheists? Alongside the displays of the major tenets of other religions I’d like to see a pure, blank slate to represent what I believe is “set in stone.” \*\* I think we atheists should simply install a mirror - to reflect **reality.** ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/69 "2003-08-24T01:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*Bricker: I asked 344 random people if they are religious. if they said no, i didn’t go to question 2. if they said yes, i asked if they would approve of a plaque, statue, or other physical symbolic display representing their religion prominently displayed on US government property (yes or no). I then asked “name any religion that 1) is not yours, and 2) that you know little about?” I then took that answer and asked whether they would approve of a marble statue representing solely that religion prominently displayed at the city hall of their town (yes or no). \*\* 1. How did you choose the “random” people? 2. How many of the 344 answered ‘Yes’ to question 1? 3. How many of that set answered ‘I would approve’ to question 2? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/70 "2003-08-24T01:12:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dwalin \* > \*\*If you asked 344 people, you can’t assert anything. 344 people is not a significant statistical sample of any religion, except any religion that has around 34,400 believers, and that would only be valid if **every single person you asked was of the religion with 34,400 believers**. You also didn’t ask the atheists, which means that there is no control sample. > > In any case, the religious people who answered that they would approve of a statue of their religion only placed on public property are not necessarily morons, just hypocrites. They might _be_ morons, but you haven’t proven that. > > Nex time you do a survey, **Kalt** , be more careful. \*\* This thread may have to take another hop to the Pit, given that the OP asserted a survery with an error rate of +/- 2%, and I’m now very doubtful that his methodology supports that error rate. If it does not, of course, then the OP is either not smart enough to correctly figure and apply an error rate to a statistical sampling, or he is, but deliberately lied, or he is smart enough, but simply made an honest error. Two of those three alternatives are Pit-worthy. But I’m willing to be convinced with more detail. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Inoshiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Inoshiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inoshiro)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/71 "2003-08-24T04:30:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*Bricker: I asked 344 random people if they are religious. if they said no, i didn’t go to question 2. if they said yes, i asked if they would approve of a plaque, statue, or other physical symbolic display representing their religion prominently displayed on US government property (yes or no). I then asked “name any religion that 1) is not yours, and 2) that you know little about?” I then took that answer and asked whether they would approve of a marble statue representing solely that religion prominently displayed at the city hall of their town (yes or no). \*\* Hmmm… "I then asked “name any religion that 1) is not yours, and 2) that you know little about?”. Religion that is NOT MINE!! I am tempted to think of the darkest, most despicable thing I can. If I am a fundy Christian I am perhaps going to think of Satanism, or fundamentalist Islam. I am now conjuring all sorts of visions of human sacrifice and bombs going off. Combine with the effects of “that you know little about”. Now we have the double whammy of the alien AND the unfamiliar. You might as well have asked them if the many-tentacled purple blob people of Zeta-Reticuli should be allowed to remodel the governor’s mansion. This “proves”, if anything, that people fear the alien and unknown and are comfortable with the familiar and well-vetted. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/72 "2003-08-24T05:15:13Z")
Okay, we’ve established that **Kalt** ’s alleged attempt at a statisitically significant sampling methodology is screwy, to say the least. What does that tell ya? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854/74 "2020-08-01T01:00:29Z")
Closed on August 1, 2020, 1:00am UTC [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-90-of-religious-people/196854.md?page=3)