# Resolved: America is a dystopian shithole. Also, leopard hijacks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330 "2025-08-20T17:47:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/21 "2025-08-20T19:30:49Z")
Beck, you’re just not that well informed. Sorry to be the one to break that news to you. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/22 "2025-08-20T19:32:49Z")
Oh, dear. Don’t concern yourself. I’ll say this much, I know enough to stay where I’m safe. I’ve made preparation to sustain me and mine for a good long time. Trump won’t live forever. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/23 "2025-08-20T19:34:33Z")
I have no idea if it applies here, but I have a theory that accelerationists in general, if asked about, say, the disabled and sick people who would die in The Revolution, would say something like, “They already suffer and die under the status quo. If it’s a choice between suffering and dying with the hope of change versus the same suffering and dying where nothing changes, which do you think they want?” Never had the occasion to put my theory to the test, though. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/24 "2025-08-20T19:37:59Z")
@Leaper, you’ve just described my condition and how I think about this. I’ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/25 "2025-08-20T19:38:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > think this is my very first pit thread. I’m as surprised as you all are that it has taken that long. Pro-tip: In case you are tempted to derail another thread, there’s a right facing arrow above the post box. You can quote the person-wrong-on-the-internet in the source thread and reply to them in a new thread. Or better yet quote them there and post the reply here. Easy-peasy. There are also substantive issues that can be debated here. FTR, I don’t think madmonk’s behavior is especially pitable, I just want the 6000+ post Leopards thread to stay in rough focus. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/26 "2025-08-20T19:40:31Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > FTR, I don’t think madmonk’s behavior is especially pitable, I just want the 6000+ post Leopards thread to stay in rough focus. I get that and I apologize for my part in that. Just like everyone here who is paying attention, it’s easy to get obsessive about what’s going on and hard to turn it off. We haven’t even completed our first year of his term. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/27 "2025-08-20T19:42:52Z")
Whether or not I agree with @madmonk28 about where we are on the continuum, and at what pace we’re proceeding, I’d like to recognize one thing that I find very salient here. I’ve traveled a lot – often for months at a time. But I’ve never _lived_ outside the US. @madmonk28 has, and I get the sense that it’s been for years at a time and not always in the most classically ‘attractive’ places. Meaning: whether or not I agree with what his _left_ foot (the one on First Base) is doing, I’m very confident in his ability to assess what lies ahead (where his _right_ foot is pointed: toward Second Base) – almost without regard to which country he’s considering. That ain’t nothin’. I’m sick. If I weren’t, my wife and I would surely consider leaving. Sick puts me in a poor position to be much help and a _pretty good_ position to be victimized, marginalized, or simply to have my remaining quality of life stripped from me. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/28 "2025-08-20T19:45:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’ve also got to figure out the dog, he’s very high stress and I’ve shipped a dog internationally before and it is rough on them. If he can’t go, I can’t go, it’s as simple as that. That’s admirable. We won’t be able to leave, though we’ve talked about it. My girl-child, on the other hand, may have to. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/29 "2025-08-20T19:51:32Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’ve also got to figure out the dog, he’s very high stress and I’ve shipped a dog internationally before and it is rough on them. If he can’t go, I can’t go, it’s as simple as that. Oh, yeah. About that. If it’s at all doable on your end …. > **[BARK Air - A New Breed of Travel](https://air.bark.co/)** > > BARK Air is the first dog-first hospitality brand, built entirely around your dog’s comfort—on the ground and in the air. From our signature flight experience to custom trip planning, we exist to make every journey joyful for dogs and the people who... > **[RetrievAir: Fly with your dog](https://retrievair.com/)** > > You can finally fly with your dog right by your side. We're a pet-friendly air service catering to dogs flying with their families. Idunno if they go where you’re looking to go, or even close enough to be a big help, but it’s a good concept to be aware of, and maybe worth staying tuned to their potential new routes, itineraries, and other actors in that space. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/30 "2025-08-20T19:53:07Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The big difference, of course, is that those who do flee Trumpism (as opposed to just bloviating about it) will be people with elite skills and/or sufficient money to be accepted in other countries. The impoverished and oppressed will be stuck here. That’s a big difference, but of course the reason for that change is that the US and other countries have largely closed their doors to immigration. All that really means, though, is that the higher social classes have more options, which has always been the case. A hundred and fifty years ago, their extra option was to stay. Now, it’s to go. To @Beckdawrek , what I meant by “isolating” was “engaging minimally.” You’d deal with such a person when you encountered them, but you wouldn’t watch their TV show or vote for them. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/31 "2025-08-20T19:55:44Z")
We’ve known about him since well…forever, it seems. I started preparing when Hillary was running against him. Yeah, if Americans could’ve just accepted a woman as POTUS, I don’t think we’d be here. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/32 "2025-08-20T20:04:56Z")
After the election my wife I had this conversation. We have Pit mixes, and many (MANY) countries won’t allow them, although they look sufficiently different that we could lie and plausibly get away with it. It would be insane, but I’d plunk down (and have the means) for Bark Air or a private flight before getting rid of the dogs or putting them in the hold long haul… But, our parents are in their late eighties, so for now we stay. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/33 "2025-08-20T20:05:19Z")
Thanks for this. The dog is complicated, but not insurmountable, I hope. We shipped a dog from Afghanistan and it was not something I would inflict on 8 year old Bartleby. From our city to our final destination, would take more than a day, but one idea I had was to drive all the domestic parts of the trip with him, which would reduce the flight to 8 hours to the capital. We could then drive together from there to our final destination. It would mean figuring out how to drive one way in the states, and then one way at our destination country. My wife will be spending half the year in the US with her parents, so there might be other ways to work it. But Bartleby is my best friend and I get very attached to my dogs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/34 "2025-08-20T20:09:26Z")
I don’t think there’s any shame in emigration (unless it’s to avoid legitimate prosecution or something like that) – and there’s also no shame in staying and fighting (which is my plan, at least for now). Everyone should do what’s best for them and their families. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/35 "2025-08-20T20:20:14Z")
You just created the **biggest** obstacle. Your pet. What else would you need to give up, to go to this perfect world you wanna go to? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/36 "2025-08-20T20:24:05Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > That crap goes on in every country. I’m looking out my kitchen window. But no. No there is no military presence on the street. Actually, I’m sure that I’d have seen some news about it if there was any military force replacing the civil law enforcement anywhere within the EU (Orban probably wants to do it) . Those things tend to happen in shit hole countries. I don’t see members from the minority parties being held in custody unless they sign something or another. That also happens in shit hole countries. The things that - from my view afar - seem to be ramping up in the U.S. is starting to look like what is happening in Erdogan’s Türkiye. What happened in Bolsonaro’s Brazil - currently on pause, but probably just a breather. And Duterte’s Philippines, Modi’s India, Bukele’s El Salvador. Shit hole countries. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I started preparing when Hillary was running against him. Yeah, if Americans could’ve just accepted a woman as POTUS, I don’t think we’d be here. You think this started in 2016? Or maybe in the 90’s? 80’s? I’m currently reading [What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815-1848 by Daniel Walker Howe](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=what+hath+god+wrought+the+transformation+of+america&crid=1T0VFWZJUT2NB&sprefix=what+hat%252Caps%252C205&ref=nb_sb_ss_p13n-pd-dpltr-ranker_4_8). It’s quite interesting and illuminating. I can’t really say that the current situation was built in from the very start, but reading about Madison, Monroe and Jackson certainly points in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/37 "2025-08-20T20:26:10Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I want to say that I find it odd that I was accused of being insensitive to the suffering of Americans in a thread explicitly created to celebrate the suffering of Americans. Whoa, talk about reading comprehension failure. The thread was about MAGA voters that are not much willing to change even after being bitten by the policies of Cheetolini.(Who are a minority) It was clear that the ones that learned the lesson and the ones that are opposed to Trump (Now a majority) are the ones that you are happily vilifying on your way out. Mind you, I would be OK with your reasons for leaving, but tossing a hand grenade on the way out is not the way to do things. Just remember: A lot of the Irish still helped the Irish opposition to Britain while in exile in the US (I know some was help for the violent opposition, but here I’m referring to the monetary support for [the peaceful but more effective institutions](https://irishap.org/about-us/our-mission/) in the nation that they left). In this age, implying that not even that kind of help would come from guys like you, adds to the reasons why one can say that you are now part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/38 "2025-08-20T20:29:23Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > I don’t see members from the minority parties being held in custody unless they sign something or another. How are you defining custody? > **[Texas Democrat says she's locked inside state Capitol after refusing...](https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/texas-democrat-nicole-collier-locked-inside-house-chamber-returning-texas-capitol/)** > > House leaders mandated police escorts for Democrats to guarantee they return for Wednesday's session. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/39 "2025-08-20T20:35:43Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The thread was about MAGA voters that are not much willing to change even after being bitten by the policies of Cheetolini.(Who are a minority) So, celebrating the suffering of Americans? As for reading comprehension, my point is that Trump is a symptom as are MAGA. They didn’t happen in a vacuum; they were able to thrive because an awful lot of Americans who are smugly patting themselves on the back about not voting for Trump in that thread were pretty complacent and still haven’t learned their lessons. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330/40 "2025-08-20T20:36:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So, celebrating the suffering of Americans? As Rambo would say: They (MAGA) drew first blood. And no, you are the one not learning the lesson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-america-is-a-dystopian-shithole-also-leopard-hijacks/1022330.md?page=3)