# Resolved : Congressional Republicans Are Evil **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125 "2017-05-08T13:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/81 "2017-05-09T16:09:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is damn near a sensible article, right up until he goes to interpret the statistics, where he goes fucking snooker loopy. We’re going off _one_ year of data seeing a very minor increase in a noisy chart, and claiming causation based off of a weak correlation that makes no sense on its face - not so much “vaccines cause autism” as “vaccines cause shaken baby syndrome”. The headline is, of course, complete crap. > > Meanwhile, news sources not pushing an agenda actually look at potential causes that are: > A) In the data > and > B) not fucking nuts: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/health/american-death-rate-rises-for-first-time-in-a-decade.html?\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/health/american-death-rate-rises-for-first-time-in-a-decade.html?_r=0) > > It brings up several other factors in the data. I was ninja’d again. I blame it on Excel taking so long to load. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/82 "2017-05-10T05:01:52Z")
How much is due to the rise in maternal mortality rates since so many laws have been passed to restrict access to abortion? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/83 "2017-05-10T05:32:12Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > How much is due to the rise in maternal mortality rates since so many laws have been passed to restrict access to abortion? Probably none. You’d be talking about a small percentage (women who die in pregnancy) of a small percentage (pregnant women who wanted an abortion but couldn’t get one) of a small percentage (pregnant women who wanted an abortion in any given year). Besides, this is more likely due to the surge in deaths of “middle aged white guys” we’ve been reading so much about. I doubt many of them were seeking abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/84 "2017-05-10T06:19:18Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > This wasn’t about making the rich richer. This was about the average working man, who had insurance previously, but under Obamacare saw his premiums skyrocket by as much as 24% per year, while deductibles rose as well, essentially leaving him paying out of pocket for nearly all of his families medical bills, on top of paying the increased premiums into the pool. > > These are the same average working men that elected those republican representatives to do something about it. So these so called evil representatives are doing what their constituencies asked them to. Doesn’t this ignore the fact that premiums were skyrocketing before Obamacare passed in 2010? Here’s a [2009 Time article](http://business.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/) that reports premiums having risen by 131% in the previous ten years. If you blame Obamacare for rising premiums since 2010, to what do you attribute rising premiums before 2010? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/85 "2017-05-10T06:33:52Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Doesn’t this ignore the fact that premiums were skyrocketing before Obamacare passed in 2010? Here’s a [2009 Time article](http://business.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/) that reports premiums having risen by 131% in the previous ten years. If you blame Obamacare for rising premiums since 2010, to what do you attribute rising premiums before 2010? The fact that we let black people vote, probably. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/86 "2017-05-10T06:59:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Evil, or do they just really believe that if we give rich people more money they’ll build a perfect world for everybody? > [@CandidGamera](#): > > Distinction without a difference, isn’t it? In terms of the policies they enact, there may not be a difference. But I think it makes a difference in how you campaign against them, and try to get their supporters to come around to your way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/87 "2017-05-11T12:41:01Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/88 "2017-05-12T21:55:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Health insurance is not healthcare, it is a financial product that has a value. This is a viable topic for discussion. As I have been pointing out to family members, we do not use _health_ insurance the way we use other insurance - as a protection against unlikely but catastrophic expenses. Rather, we use health insurance as a collective health payment plan. We pay into the plan, and then every health expense we incur gets submitted to the plan for first payment and adjustment, and then the rest is passed back to us. Also noted in this [Time article](http://business.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/): > [@](#): > > Insurance is probably the most complex, costly, and distortional method of financing any activity; that’s why it is otherwise used to fund only rare, unexpected, and large costs. Imagine sending your weekly grocery bill to an insurance clerk for review, and having the grocer reimbursed by the insurer to whom you’ve paid your share. An expensive and wasteful absurdity, no? > [@puddleglum](#): > > There is no evidence that Obamacare saved any lives. 44% of the people who gained coverage under Obamacare were people who signed up for medicaid and were eligible before Obamacare passed. These people will not be affected at all. Most of the other people who gained coverage were people who signed up for Medicaid under the expanded criteria. This is significant because there is [no difference in mortality](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1202099#t=abstract) between those who have Medicaid and those who are uninsured. That link says precisely the opposite of what you claim. > [@](#): > > Our study documents that large expansions of Medicaid eligibility in three states were associated with\*\* a significant decrease in mortality \*\*during a 5-year follow-up period, as compared with neighboring states without Medicaid expansions. Mortality reductions were greatest among adults between the ages of 35 and 64 years, minorities, and residents of poor counties. These findings may influence states’ decisions with respect to Medicaid expansion under the ACA. > [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > **[Running The Numbers On Mortality Rates Suggests Obamacare Could Be Killing People](https://thefederalist.com/2017/04/25/running-numbers-mortality-rates-suggests-obamacare-killing-people/)** > > [snip] > > Facts \> Scare Mongering I realize others have already taken this to task, and this poster is now banned, but I took a look at the chart presented in the article. That is a very distorted presentation. When presenting data, one should include the origin (0,0) in the chart. If one does so with that data, and scales the y-axis (vertical) to the same height as the one of that chart, the rise at the end is just barely perceptible. At the original scale I used when creating the chart, that line appeared to just be a straight, flat line. The article is also duplicitous because, while it makes the pseudo-effort to state “correlation does not equal causation”, the entire argument the author is trying to make is that the rise in mortality is directly the result of Obamacare. The article by **Budget Player Cadet** addresses this very well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/89 "2017-05-12T22:47:28Z")
You mean to say that people who could not get health care before, and you give them health care, they don’t die as much? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/90 "2017-05-12T22:58:23Z")
“Don’t die as much”? I don’t know how other provinces run things, but in Alberta health care is rationed and we only get one death each. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/91 "2017-05-12T23:04:45Z")
Don’t you have prepare a Statement of Apology? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/92 "2017-05-12T23:08:38Z")
No, that business about Canadians being all apologetic and stuff is a myth. Sort of like how your country is the land of the free and the home of the brave. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/93 "2017-05-12T23:29:59Z")
Well, I live there! We never said _everybody_ was free and brave. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/94 "2017-05-12T23:54:47Z")
I understand and sympathize with the message that not having health insurance is harmful to people and leads to shorter and/or lower-quality lives, but hyperbolic rhetoric does not advance the cause. People requiring emergency, life-saving care are not simply allowed to die without having coverage. I spent much of my early adulthood in poverty and was without health insurance in multiple cases where I needed emergency assistance. I was provided help and when proving my low-income status I was only required to pay back a small portion of the cost of my treatment, and to pay it over installments I could afford. No I couldn’t afford regular checkups or other preventative care but that did not put my life in immediate danger and could not have directly resulted in my death. A person who has insurance and one who doesn’t have the same mortality rate, 100%. Insurance does not confer immortality. So if lacking insurance won’t cause immediate death, and having it doesn’t prevent eventual death, then people claiming that a lack of health insurance kills people are factually incorrect. It’s inaccurate alarmist rhetoric that takes away from any rational argument you form around it. So this is just my suggestion, stop with the over-the-top language because the actual problem is dire enough without exaggeration. People who can’t afford the insurance will live shorter, more miserable lives. That’s the situation borne out by facts, stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/95 "2017-05-13T00:02:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I live there! We never said _everybody_ was free and brave. You’re not free, you just haven’t been arrested for laughing at Boss Hogg _yet_. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/96 "2017-05-13T00:47:21Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > A person who has insurance and one who doesn’t have the same mortality rate, 100%. Insurance does not confer immortality. So if lacking insurance won’t cause immediate death, and having it doesn’t prevent eventual death, then people claiming that a lack of health insurance kills people are factually incorrect. It’s inaccurate alarmist rhetoric that takes away from any rational argument you form around it. Are you fucking kidding me? By that logic murder doesn’t kill people since they were going to die anyway! A person who gets shot in the head and a person who doesn’t get shot in the head have the same mortality rate, after all: 100%. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/97 "2017-05-13T01:36:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I understand and sympathize with the message that not having health insurance is harmful to people and leads to shorter and/or lower-quality lives, but hyperbolic rhetoric does not advance the cause. > > …\… > > So this is just my suggestion, stop with the over-the-top language because the actual problem is dire enough without exaggeration. People who can’t afford the insurance will live shorter, more miserable lives. That’s the situation borne out by facts, stick with it. One of the key provisions of the ACA was preventive care. My breast cancer was caught with a routine mammogram when it was less than one centimeter in size. My late husband had a kidney transplant that prolonged his life by at least 10 years. Trips to the emergency room do not constitute preventive care or care for chronic conditions. BTW, who do you suppose paid the full cost of your treatment, hmmm? I can only assume you’re under 20 and in excellent health. Good for you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/98 "2017-05-13T02:14:18Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It’s this kind of insightful, reasoned response that make **Clothy** such a valued member of the Dope. > Fuckwit. Where’s your outrage over the OP’s ridiculous premise? This whole thread is foolish hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/99 "2017-05-13T02:18:45Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > One of the key provisions of the ACA was preventive care. My breast cancer was caught with a routine mammogram when it was less than one centimeter in size. My late husband had a kidney transplant that prolonged his life by at least 10 years. Trips to the emergency room do not constitute preventive care or care for chronic conditions. > > BTW, who do you suppose paid the full cost of your treatment, hmmm? > > I can only assume you’re under 20 and in excellent health. Good for you. I’m 40. And nothing you’ve said contradicts my post. Preventative care is important and should be available to everyone. As I’ve said, not having it leads to shorter, more miserable lives. I’m not used to Pit talking, do I need to curse more? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125/100 "2017-05-13T02:38:18Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Feudal Mentality. > > We can’t give anything to you, you’re poor and therefore irresponsible. So we’ll give even more money to your boss and maybe, just maybe, he’ll throw a little something your way. Speaking of that, in a previous discussion a poster remarked that the women’s ability to have life saving surgery is completely tied to her employment, it was a thread about how women can lose their jobs if they get complications in their pregnancy, particularly if they do not have a good job. And if you have a bad job but a preexisting condition, the loss of ACA also can mean a return or an increase of the job lock issue. [http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20161228/NEWS/161229966](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20161228/NEWS/161229966) > [@](#): > > Prior to the ACA, people thinking about self-employment, particularly those who were older or had preexisting conditions, had no guarantee insurers would sell them a comprehensive, affordable plan – or any plan at all. Some experts say women are more averse than men to the risk of leaving a job with health benefits to strike out on their own. > > As a result, many Americans stuck with jobs they didn’t want just to have health insurance. A 2008 Harvard Business School study estimated that 11 million people were caught in so-called job lock tied to health coverage. Economists say job lock crimps the dynamism of the U.S. economy, discouraging entrepreneurs from developing potentially successful new products and services and reducing the number of startup firms that may go on to hire workers and boost the economy. This is why I said many times before that the current health care in America would make perfect sense only to a medieval feudal lord. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-congressional-republicans-are-evil/786125.md?page=6)