# Resolved: Gun control is unworkable and impractical **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532 "2005-09-07T16:03:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/121 "2005-09-11T23:33:33Z")
Registration has prefaced confiscation in: Germany Australia England Chicago Washington DC New Orleans Now San Francisco is potentially joining that list, as they have a referendum on the ballot to ban all handguns in the city and require citizens to either get rid of them before Jan. 1, 2006 or turn them in to police without compenstation. Confiscation and bans follow registration. The _facts demonstrate this._ Why are you ignoring historical fact? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/122 "2005-09-11T23:37:57Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Then how is it a theory? Read my lips. It has been proved that guns have been registered. It has been proved that guns have been confiscated. It has even been proved that registered guns have been confiscated. \*\*But that does not prove that registering guns inevitably leads to confiscation. \*\* If unregistered guns are also confiscated, there must be some other means of locating them, which could have also been used to located and confiscate registered guns. The fact that they are registered, as well as confiscated, is coincidental. Correlation does not imply causation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/123 "2005-09-11T23:42:05Z")
Your argument from “historical facts” is completely fallacious. Just because Y follows X on one occasion does not mean it MUST follow X on every occasion. Confiscation is never going to happen in the US. That’s just a scare tactic used to frighten people into opposing sane regulations. As politically demagoguery goes, it’s right up there with, “they’re going to ban the Bible.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/124 "2005-09-12T00:27:13Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You can remain obsitinate as long as you would like. From my cite that now requires registration: > > _NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons,_\* including legally registered firearms, \*_from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here._ > > Even though the guns were registered, and the people had done no wrong, the cops knew where the guns were and who owned them. The guns are now confiscated. I have stated several times that I am sure that the initial plan when the registration idea was forced onto people was to “stop crime” through superior record keeping. When push came to shove however, the cops thought it a better idea to seize known legal guns, along with any other guns they could find. > > [snip…] > > The best thing for pro gun people is for those clamoring for more control, especially through registration, to keep chasing their tails in a battle of **logic**. ??? …do you understand what logic means? Your arguement is that **gun registration leads to confiscation.** Your citation shows that the police confiscated weapons, a **subset** of which were **registered firearms.** From the snippet you quoted, the larger set of **weapons** could also have include knives, polearms, and unregistered firearms. The article appeared to emphasis registered firearms to show that they were confiscated **despite** there registration, not **because** of their registration. For you to prove your case, you would have to show: - That unregistered guns were not targeted for confiscation and that unregistered guns were not confiscated - That registered guns were targeted because they were on a registery - Demonstrate the methodology that New Orleans Police used to determine how, and what weapons were confiscated - The definition of weapon as defined by the authors of the article ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/125 "2005-09-12T01:08:32Z")
My argument is simple actually. This confiscation will only help the anti-gun control groups. Throw all of the logic you want. Fear Itself and I actually agree on this fact. The connection between registration and confiscation may not be as cut and dry as I would like it to be. The confiscation alone however has opened the eyes of MANY gun owners who otherwise would have had no problems at all with registration in their own communities. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/126 "2005-09-12T01:10:49Z")
Confiscation of private property without just cause is never a good thing. Confiscation of legaly owned guns is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/127 "2005-09-12T01:12:52Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Confiscation of private property without just cause is never a good thing. > > Confiscation of legaly owned guns is even worse. I agree on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/128 "2005-09-12T01:18:25Z")
We should stop now while we agree! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/129 "2005-09-12T01:39:09Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > Don’t we need a [hijack] to off this far? > > Oh, I see, pointing out a difference between Japan and America requires that I completely and 100% percent support everything about the Japanese system. Nice strawman, I’ll have to try that sometime myself. Your first sentence doesn’t make any sense to me. Could I get a translation to coherent English? The system is what enables Japan’s gun control program to function. The two are inseparable. Read the [article](http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html) I linked to earlier. It clearly explains how the strong police, lack of civil rights, and the justice system are linked with gun control in Japan. I don’t know how long you’ve been living here, but if it’s any longer than about 6 months you should know from first-hand experience that there are a lot of myths outsiders hold about Japan that don’t hold up to scrutiny. The “peaceful society” myth is one of them, along with the gun control fallacy. You’re praising something that you clearly don’t fully understand. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/130 "2005-09-12T11:04:24Z")
How about this: Every household gets a rifle and two pistols. In order to stay true to the intent of the founding fathers, this means a muzzle-loader, a brace of flintlock pistols, a barrel of black powder and another of shot. All other firearms are prohibited except for the army and police. Hunters can still hunt. Families can still protect their households and will be on equal footing (vis a vis firepower) with highwaymen and footpads. Citizens can still form a well-regulated militia of about the same effectiveness against the black helicopters as if they were packing conventional small arms. However, little Johnny will have a much harder time hosing down the elementary school cafeteria. Disgruntled employees will have to stop and reload for every former coworker they wish to execute, and the odd crazy person in the clocktower will have an awfully hard time picking off random strangers with any accuracy. Everybody’s a winner! ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/131 "2005-09-12T15:44:12Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > In Diane Feinstein’s own words: > > > [@Feinstein on 60 Minutes:](#): > > > > If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it. I’d like a cite on this quote please, including the full context of it. I’m pretty sure this is purely in reference to the Assault Weapons Ban, and not some potential confiscation as the result of registering weapons. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/132 "2005-09-12T20:30:09Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > I’d like a cite on this quote please, including the full context of it. I’m pretty sure this is purely in reference to the Assault Weapons Ban, and not some potential confiscation as the result of registering weapons. 60 Minutes 2/5/1995 She was gloating over her recently passed assault weapons ban. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/133 "2005-09-12T20:32:21Z")
And if I remember her quote correctly, she intended to skip the registration part and just get on with the confiscation or the “turning them in” part of the plan. So in that case I guess it could be sid that registration would not have led to confiscation. If she had the number of votes needed, registration would have been a needless step in the process. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/134 "2005-09-12T23:28:36Z")
> [@](#): > > **Diane Feinstein** said: > “If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren`t there.” --CBS 60 Minutes, Dec. 5, 1995 And then there’s Feinstein and Schumer in 2003, trying to pass a law even stricter than 1994’s so-called assault weapons ban: > [@](#): > > Feinstein also said she would like to push for stronger gun controls, but “it isn`t in the cards right now." "We know that if we push it too far, we`ll have no bill,” Schumer added. (Los Angeles Times, May 9, 2003.) These people want bans. They have said as much. I’m tired of giving an inch only to have it not be enough the next time they want an inch. It’s the death of a thousand slices and I’m not buying it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/135 "2005-09-12T23:52:33Z")
That fucking Feinstein quote was only about assault rifles, not all guns. I know it’s a favorite quote on gun fetish sites but it’s misleading bullshit. Squawking about gun confiscation is ridiculous, alarmist nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/136 "2005-09-13T01:40:56Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That fucking Feinstein quote was only about assault rifles, not all guns. I know it’s a favorite quote on gun fetish sites but it’s misleading bullshit. Squawking about gun confiscation is ridiculous, alarmist nonsense. And the difference is. . .? “Assault Rifle” is a meaningless term made up by politicians. There is no functional difference between many “assault rifles” and other firearms that didn’t have the cosmetic details the law was written about. If you can push through a ban on one class of guns, it’s not that hard to do for the others. If nothing else, it sets a precedent which could make future bans easier to implement. I have little doubt she was including other classes of guns in her quote anyway. I lived in California at that time and heard quite a lot of her rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/137 "2005-09-13T02:51:35Z")
[The NRA finally speaks up:](http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/Releases.aspx?ID=6466) > [@](#): > > "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves, " LaPierre said. > > “When law enforcement isn’t available, Americans turn to the one right that protects all the others - the right to keep and bear arms,” LaPierre said. “This attempt to repeal the Second Amendment should be condemned.” These guys are as slow as FEMA! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/138 "2005-09-13T13:33:14Z")
> [@DTC](#): > > That fucking Feinstein quote was only about assault rifles, not all guns. I know it’s a favorite quote on gun fetish sites but it’s misleading bullshit. Squawking about gun confiscation is ridiculous, alarmist nonsense. No. The national assault WEAPON ban (AWB) has sunseted because IT was alarmist nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/139 "2005-09-13T14:17:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That fucking Feinstein quote was only about assault rifles, not all guns. I know it’s a favorite quote on gun fetish sites but it’s misleading bullshit. Squawking about gun confiscation is ridiculous, alarmist nonsense. And she did say it right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532/140 "2005-09-13T14:38:05Z")
Yes, and good for her. You don’t need an assault rifle and you have no settled constitutional right to own one. You’ll live. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-gun-control-is-unworkable-and-impractical/320532.md?page=8)