# Resolved: John McCain does not have the integrity to be President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149 "2008-09-11T20:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/101 "2008-09-12T19:49:32Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You’re kidding right? He must be, because that’s not true (at least not entirely). But since this thread is supposed to be about John McCain’s lack of integrity, I’ll start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/102 "2008-09-12T20:21:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Did any of them call him on his lying in the sex education ad or the pigstick canard? Also from the View, by way of [yahoo.com](http://yahoo.com) McCain stood by two of his campaign commercials — one which said Obama favored comprehensive sex education for kindergarten students and another that suggested Obama had called Palin a pig. Both are misleading and factually inaccurate. Obama, as an Illinois state senator, voted in favor of legislation that would teach age appropriate sex education to kindergartners, including information on rejecting advances by sexual predators. And while Obama told a campaign rally this week that electing McCain would be like “putting lipstick on a pig,” he never used the phrase in connection to Palin. “Those ads aren’t true. They’re lies,” said “View” co-host Joy Behar. “They’re not lies,” McCain said, insisting that Obama “chooses his words very carefully” and should never had made the lipstick remark. source link- [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap\_on\_el\_pr/campaign\_republicans;\_ylt=Alyofr8ApO9onwl\_FWNwD2lh24cA](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_republicans;_ylt=Alyofr8ApO9onwl_FWNwD2lh24cA) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/103 "2008-09-12T20:29:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Integrity? Harding? Nixon? GeeDubya? Clearly, integrity is not prerequisite. Point of fact, it is almost certainly a disqualifier. How many compromises are necessary to rise to the top, who do you have to suck off to get the money, who has the money to give? > > I think Obama is an excellent candidate, and support him wholeheartedly. But I don’t kid myself, the Unicorn of Purity does not rise up from the sewers, that is a fantasy, and fantasies are dangerous. > > The only way you get a better democracy is by improving the electorate, educate, enlighten and empower. When the people lead, the leaders will follow, when we demand integrity, we will get it. And not one day sooner. I don’t think I have ever responded to a post by you, but this one illustrates why I have, do, and will always truly love you!!! 🙂 The American public, the American voters, get the government they deserve. For once could we all pay attention and get a government we need? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/104 "2008-09-12T20:53:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point was that you seem absolutely certain that none of the current spate of Palin-falsehood-mania is originating with the same shut-eye conniving of anyone on Obama’s team. > > How do you know this? Well of course I don’t know it. I do know the ear marks of organized, semi-official, slightly sub-rosa, plausibly deniable political skullduggery. I don’t see those ear tags on the stuff that supposedly maligns the governor or the senator. For instance, there does not seem to be a well financed system of dissemination of the list of books Gov Palin either had banned or tried to ban from the Wisila library, the money for which can be traced back to some Demo operative with long ties to the party apparatus or to the Obama dynasty or the Clinton cabal. We could make that tracing with the Swiftboat guys. We don’t see any sleek backroom pols clogging the public airway with the claim or writing op-ed pieces and feeding it to select reporters. We don’t see the stuff in quick published hardback printed by a publisher with long ties to the party. What we have is goofie E-mail and posting in goofball message boards that when traced end up in some zealot midnight poster’s out box. If Sen Obama was going to do a hatchet-black bag operation I’d hope it would be more elegantly and professionally handled. As much as anything else, the national Demo party doesn’t have a history of stuff like this. I can’t say the same for Sen McCain’s outfit. Carl Rove and the black bastard child anyone? Unfit For Command? Jerome Corsi? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/105 "2008-09-12T20:55:49Z")
> [@blanx](#): > > Also from the View, by way of [yahoo.com](http://yahoo.com) > > McCain stood by two of his campaign commercials — one which said Obama favored comprehensive sex education for kindergarten students and another that suggested Obama had called Palin a pig. Both are misleading and factually inaccurate. > > Obama, as an Illinois state senator, voted in favor of legislation that would teach age appropriate sex education to kindergartners, including information on rejecting advances by sexual predators. And while Obama told a campaign rally this week that electing McCain would be like “putting lipstick on a pig,” he never used the phrase in connection to Palin. > > “Those ads aren’t true. They’re lies,” said “View” co-host Joy Behar. > > “They’re not lies,” McCain said, insisting that Obama “chooses his words very carefully” and should never had made the lipstick remark. > > source link- [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap\_on\_el\_pr/campaign\_republicans;\_ylt=Alyofr8ApO9onwl\_FWNwD2lh24cA](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_republicans;_ylt=Alyofr8ApO9onwl_FWNwD2lh24cA) Jesus, what a soulless piece of shit. Obama needs to go right at his fucking face in the first debate. Fuck the scripted questions, he needs to tell the old fucker off right to his fucking face. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/106 "2008-09-12T21:03:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Jesus, what a soulless piece of shit. Obama needs to go right at his fucking face in the first debate. Fuck the scripted questions, he needs to tell the old fucker off right to his fucking face. So, how did you feel when Obama said McCain defines the middle class as anyone making $5M or less, when McCain was clearly joking. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/107 "2008-09-12T21:36:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, how did you feel when Obama said McCain defines the middle class as anyone making $5M or less, when McCain was clearly joking. Wasn’t this remark made during the church forum that he and Obama attended? Didn’t sound like a joke to me. Correction welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/108 "2008-09-12T21:36:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, how did you feel when Obama said McCain defines the middle class as anyone making $5M or less, when McCain was clearly joking. I felt fine about it. It wasn’t a lie. It was what McCain said. What are you smoking that you would even _try_ to equate that the with the sleaziness of the sex education commercial (complete with the photoshopped image of Obama leering like a pedophile)? McCain can say he was joking about the $5 million, but he actually did _say_ it. Obama did NOT call Palin a pig and McCain knows it. There’s a normal amount of trying to frame the other guy’s words, and there’s flat out _lying_ about them. I think the sex ed lie is even more egregious than the lipstick lie, though. Obama has never done anything close to that to McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/109 "2008-09-12T23:22:02Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I followed up with his web site. What is missing however is how a UHC will be paid for, with the kind of tax cutting that he is proposing. Where is that money going to come from? You might want to read the thread: [A question on tax cuts for Obama supporters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481957). According to the rough estimates as analyzed there, it seems feasible enough that **xtisme** was satisfied (I think) that Obama’s tax plan held together. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/110 "2008-09-12T23:30:41Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Wasn’t this remark made during the church forum that he and Obama attended? Didn’t sound like a joke to me. Correction welcomed. Here’s the transcript (from [factcheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html)): > [@](#): > > Pastor Rick Warren, Aug. 16: [G]ive me a number, give me a specific number - where do you move from middle class to rich? > > McCain: I don’t want to take any money from the rich – I want everybody to get rich. … So, I think if you are just talking about income, how about $5 million? > > (LAUGHTER) > > But seriously, I don’t think you can - I don’t think seriously that - the point is that I’m trying to make here, seriously – **and I’m sure that comment will be distorted** – but the point is that we want to keep people’s taxes low and increase revenues. Their emphasis. Dio: I consider Obama’s distortion to be right on par with the lipstick on pig flap. Obama deliberately distorted what McCain said in front of 37M people (or however many watched) during his acceptance speech. The sex-ed thing is a bit sleezier, but we’re talking a matter of degree, not of kind. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/111 "2008-09-12T23:38:21Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I would say that level of (in my opinion) betrayal is a whole hell of a lot different from a candidate reneging on a campaign financing deal. Your opinion is obscured by your political views. Obama _lied_ about his campaign financing. The charges you posted against McCain are nothing more than pathetic bickering by the Kerry camp (“…a decision that many Kerry supporters viewed as insufficient payback for Kerry’s support of McCain in 2000.”) You like Obama and his policies; that’s cool. You don’t need any more reason to vote for him. Don’t let that cloud your judgment and try to paint McCain as some monster because he didn’t let Kerry use his image. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/112 "2008-09-12T23:50:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Here’s the transcript (from [factcheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html)): Thanks. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/113 "2008-09-13T00:06:52Z")
> [@blanx](#): > > “Those ads aren’t true. They’re lies,” said “View” co-host Joy Behar. > > “They’re not lies,” McCain said, insisting that Obama “chooses his words very carefully” and should never had made the lipstick remark. Good lord… when did “The View” become the hardest-hitting political show on television? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/114 "2008-09-13T00:17:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …The sex-ed thing is a bit sleezier, but we’re talking a matter of degree, not of kind. A bit sleazier? A bit? Can we get some metric here, is Godzilla a bit bigger than the Geico Gecko? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/115 "2008-09-13T01:47:38Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Your opinion is obscured by your political views. Obama _lied_ about his campaign financing. The charges you posted against McCain are nothing more than pathetic bickering by the Kerry camp (“…a decision that many Kerry supporters viewed as insufficient payback for Kerry’s support of McCain in 2000.”) > > You like Obama and his policies; that’s cool. You don’t need any more reason to vote for him. Don’t let that cloud your judgment and try to paint McCain as some monster because he didn’t let Kerry use his image. I didn’t paint him as a monster. Bush is a monster. John McCain is just shameful. And since you clearly don’t understand the definition of a lie, it’s probably moot to go around in circles with you. I’ll just say this much – changing your mind /= lying. One of the candidates changed their mind, the other has been lying through his teeth. It’s up to you to decide which is the greater sin. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/116 "2008-09-13T02:48:14Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > And since you clearly don’t understand the definition of a lie, it’s probably moot to go around in circles with you. I’ll just say this much – changing your mind /= lying. If one makes a “promise” with apparently no intention of keeping that promise then that would be a lie. Someone who can’t keep their promises certainly has a problem with integrity. But since it was Obama who did this he’ll get a free pass from those who like his politics. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/117 "2008-09-13T03:01:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Here’s the transcript (from [factcheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html)): > Their emphasis. > > Dio: I consider Obama’s distortion to be right on par with the lipstick on pig flap. Obama deliberately distorted what McCain said in front of 37M people (or however many watched) during his acceptance speech. The sex-ed thing is a bit sleezier, but we’re talking a matter of degree, not of kind. No. Obama quoted McCain exactly and in context. He distorted nothing. That’s what McCain said. He can whine about his meaning, but he can’t say it’s not what he said. McCain flat LIED about what Obama said. Obama did not call Sarah Palin a pg, and no the sleaziness of the sex ed ad was not a difference in degree. It was a very real difference in kind. It’s the sleaziest ad I’ve ever seen put out by a Presidential candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/118 "2008-09-13T03:03:08Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Your opinion is obscured by your political views. Obama _lied_ about his campaign financing. No he didn’t. He just changed his mind when the underlying problem was solved a different way. he certainly has never lied so egrgiously and personally about his _opponent_, which is what makes John McCain’s behavior so breathtakingly despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/119 "2008-09-13T03:18:36Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > If one makes a “promise” with apparently no intention of keeping that promise then that would be a lie. Someone who can’t keep their promises certainly has a problem with integrity. But since it was Obama who did this he’ll get a free pass from those who like his politics. [Obama’s Non-Promise Not Broken](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/obamas-non-promise-not-br_b_108857.html). ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149/120 "2008-09-13T03:59:30Z")
Obama lied about public financing, however Mr. Wilson would like to spin it. > [@](#): > > My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election…If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election. > > No one could read this answer as suggesting that Obama would accept public financing under any condition. Obama explicitly “requires” a promise by the Republican to adopt a “fundraising truce”–meaning not using the parties or 527s as a way to cheat the system. Which requirement, one within the control of either candidate (i.e., NOT 527s) was not met exactly? Please! He went back on his commitment for obvious (frankly understandable) reasons. But he did indeed go back on his word. And I seem to recall a certain candidate stating on multiple occasions that “McCain wants 100 more years of war in Iraq,” a bold-faced lie, a torturous twisting of McCain’s actual statement in context. Shall we all take turns condemning Obama for his lack of integrity now? I won’t hold my breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-john-mccain-does-not-have-the-integrity-to-be-president/463149.md?page=7)