# Resolved: Kindergarten is too academically focused and should be more play based **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564 "2025-10-01T13:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/21 "2025-10-01T20:34:12Z")
My boy just started full day kindergarten. He is Level 2 autistic and probably has ADHD. He is struggling. If I had to guess I’d say the biggest shock is the reduced child to teacher ratio. He was in early childhood special education for two years and had no real problems. Since starting kindergarten the problem behaviors have dramatically accelerated. He has said repeatedly he wishes there were fewer kids. He finds the whole thing overwhelming. It is frustrating. But then I just try to think about everything we’re asking him to do. What five year old can make it through a whole day without misbehavior? I don’t know the answer to this. Maybe it’s easy for most kids. But it’s definitely more than he can handle right now, and while there are consequences at home, it feels almost cruel to punish him for failing to have exsquisite self-control when he has at least one neurodevelopmental disorder, and is _five._ Also, from what I can tell he has isolated himself completely from other kids. He’s bloody brilliant, so academics are not really a factor. I do wish he had another year to get the hang of things. It’s important to understand that the incidence of neurodevelopmental disorders among children is probably increasing. Sure we have better diagnostics and broader definitions but my point is, my kid is not really a huge outlier in a world where a lot of kids now have at least one of these kinds of challenges. Probably a lot of the children who get labeled as problems (mostly boys) are dealing with this kind of thing. It just seems very intense for five years old. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/22 "2025-10-01T20:40:31Z")
Thank you for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/23 "2025-10-01T21:23:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > How to handle it when Jenny doesn’t want to play with you. I’ve read researched opinions that the best way for kids to learn to solve conflicts is through play. If the teacher is solving all conflicts, then the kids never learn how to resolve things themselves. Guidance, modeling, and stories can help, but nothing is as beneficial as peer interactions. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If a kid misbehaves and the consequences are that they get to go for a walk and get a snack, they learn an entirely different lesson about whether to stay focused. This can be extremely difficult with kids who do not respond well to boundaries. If you try and go full discipline on my kid, you’ll just end up fighting with them all day, and nothing ever will get done. Obviously the flip applies too, if my kid acts out and gets a walk and a snack, they will very quickly learn to act out to win a prize. It requires a great deal of perception on the teacher’s (or parent’s) part to know when the acting out is because they need a break, let the walk and snack happen and then get back on task, and when the acting out is just an attempt to avoid non-preferred activities. Over the years some teachers have been much better at this than others. A huge amount of it comes down to how much time does the teacher have to devote to my kid. If my kid acts out, and the teacher can take 5 minutes to evaluate the situation and get them back on track, that is great. If the teacher has 29 other kids to manage, then my kid is taking a walk, because at least it stops the disruption. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/24 "2025-10-01T21:39:04Z")
My kids are now in their 30s and 40s but back in the day I coached their soccer and baseball, and… > [@Dinsdale](#): > > A lot of (not all) parents really suck. ain’t THAT the truth! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/25 "2025-10-01T22:23:06Z")
The main problem is that we’ve gotten the notion as a society that “more academic workload = more rigor = more excellence.” As such, nobody dares suggest in public that homework, schoolwork, be reduced, lest they be accused of wanting dumbed-down students, even when reduction would actually smarten them up. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/26 "2025-10-01T22:34:35Z")
The way I’ve heard it put is, play _is_ work for kids. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/27 "2025-10-01T22:41:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The main problem is that we’ve gotten the notion as a society that “more academic workload = more rigor = more excellence.” As such, nobody dares suggest in public that homework, schoolwork, be reduced, lest they be accused of wanting dumbed-down students, even when reduction would actually smarten them up. The problem always seems to be that politicians especially (but others as well) look at these comparisons of American results versus other countries and then freak out. “Oh, look how much better Japan is doing” for example. Ask them if they want to do all the things that Japan does regarding their educational system and general society (to the degree that such things could even possibly be similar to begin with) and of course the answer is no. We’ll just keep doing what isn’t working but even harder instead because changing things might hurt a donor’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/28 "2025-10-01T22:50:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If I had to guess I’d say the biggest shock is the reduced child to teacher ratio. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He has said repeatedly he wishes there were fewer kids. Did you mean an increased child to teacher ratio or that your kid wishes for more kids? ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/29 "2025-10-01T22:58:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I coached my son in age 5-6 soccer. I knew little about soccer, but wanted the kids to have fun and get exercise. They had a great time in practices. At the end of the game several would ask me, **“Did we win?”** I got so say, **“Did you have fun? Then you are a winner in my book!”** 😃 > > There was a freaking DRAFT in this league, and I ended up with all the misfits, late applier, etc. Needless to say, combined with my stellar coaching, we did not dominate the league. At one point, a bunch of parents confronted me saying, **“Coach, when are we going to win a game?”** So at practice, I had the kids play a game against their parents. The kids’ were shooting at a goal was the width of the field, and the parents’ were shooting for a goal maybe 6’ wide. And I told the parents to LET the kids win. Can you guess the result? The kids STOMPED the parents - because the little numbnuts couldn’t remember which goal to shoot at! 🙄 > > Nevertheless, at the last game, I overheard the parents of one particularly timid kid offering him $ if he scored a goal. I wanted to yell at them, **“Maybe offer him a hug if he doesn’t run away from the ball should it happen to roll towards him!”** > > A lot of (not all) parents really suck. Oh my dog, YES. I coached my kids’ soccer teams, too, from U10 to U14, and I bought into the rec league’s guidance that it was about learning and fun, not winning and losing. I moved the kids to a new position each week so they’d learn to play anywhere on the field. More than once I was approached by a parent saying, “My kid normally plays up front, that’s where he does best, he’ll score a lot of goals for you there.” My answer was usually that if their kid was that developed in their game (they never were), they’d be playing on a travel team and not a rec team. The kids all had a good time, they were winners in my book, and when they see me around town 20 years later, most of them holler, “Hey, Coach!” to me. Yet another way to skin the cat: A coach/friend of mine found out a kid’s dad had offered him payment for every goal he scored, so Simon put him in goal for the rest of the season! And if, as a coach, you think parents suck, try being a referee! Been there, done that, got the thickened skin to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/30 "2025-10-01T23:07:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Did you mean an increased child to teacher ratio or that your kid wishes for more kids? Increased child to teacher ratio. I never get the ratio thing right. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/31 "2025-10-01T23:10:33Z")
> [@ricepad](#): > > And if, as a coach, you think parents suck, try being a referee! Been there, done that, got the thickened skin to prove it. I was flabbergasted to see a parent banned from matches by my daughter’s Kindergarten “league”. It was my first experience with organized children’s sports in the US. Totally deserved because he was yelling at a 12 year old referee. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/32 "2025-10-02T01:14:27Z")
Another pertinent article about how we got here, to this failed “academic push down” point. 2019 NYT gift link. [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/parenting/early-childhood-education-demands.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.qU8.hJGS.VnLil8oQMkuo&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/parenting/early-childhood-education-demands.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qU8.hJGS.VnLil8oQMkuo&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) My kids spanned the bleeding edge of the transition and the money quotes are how the approach has failed. > The increased focus on academic instruction also doesn’t seem to be boosting overall educational performance in the United States. Although No Child Left Behind led to some educational gains, particularly in math among disadvantaged students, an August 2016 bipartisan [report](http://www.ncsl.org/documents/educ/Edu_International_FinaI_V2.pdf)by the National Conference of State Legislatures concluded that during the decade after the act went into effect, “the United States was outperformed not only by a majority of the advanced industrial nations, but by a growing number of less-developed nations as well.” > > ## Effects on mental health > > One important question is whether growing school pressures are worsening anxiety and depression among American children. According to a [2019 study](https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(18)31292-7/pdf) published in the Journal of Pediatrics, about 7 percent of kids between ages 3 and 17 suffer from anxiety, while about 3 percent are depressed. This prevalence is twice as high as those found in earlier studies, which suggests that anxiety and depression are increasing among kids. Other factors, such as increasing use of technology, social media and cyberbullying, undoubtedly contribute, but school pressures may be playing a role as well. Homework can also be a source of stress for kids from low-income families, who may not have computers at home, parents who can help or quiet places to work, Carlsson-Paige said. > > This shift in school expectations may also be pathologizing normal child behavior. … Of course then covid hit and kids got really screwed educationally … ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/33 "2025-10-02T01:46:23Z")
Some academics absolutely should be in kindergarten, for valid reasons of brain development. That’s when we start teaching kids how to read, because that’s when it’s easiest for a kid to learn to read. Wait too long, and it gets much harder. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/34 "2025-10-02T02:13:59Z")
Starting to teach to read yes. The how and with what expectations is the issue. Again my eldest, now a 39 year old man (shit how did he get older than me? 🙂) was in the earlier days of the shift. End of kindergarten start of first grade he was really upset. Most of his friends and classmates were really reading by then. He barely got the letters down. (Fortunately an experienced teacher who wasn’t worried.) One month into first grade though? It was an Amish house raising, a new chip installed … it clicked into place and he suddenly could not only read but could read at two or three grade levels above. Well he’s always developed at his own pace - finishing a neuropsychiatric fellowship now. And each of my four had different paces at it. One reading well before kindergarten, one traditional gradual linear progression, one in less dramatic but still sudden steps. My youngest now 24 was linear and in acceptable range but I couldn’t for the life of me get her to read for fun or let me read to her, it bored her. The boys let me keep reading to them to probably fifth or six grade. Books that were of adult supervision themes As an adult starting her graduate studies she is an avid reader though. The variation _is normal_ but current expectations pathologize it, and yes increase the frequency of true and just labeled pathology. Kids are _not_ better readers today by third or fifth grade than they were when reading skills were not pushed as hard before first grade. And adults less often read for fun. Coincidence? Maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/35 "2025-10-02T02:19:22Z")
Oh, sure, it’s a mistake to say that every child must learn to read in kindergarten. Variation is normal and natural, and some will be earlier and some later. But it’s an even bigger mistake to say that no child should learn to read in kindergarten. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/36 "2025-10-02T02:31:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But it’s an even bigger mistake to say that no child should learn to read in kindergarten. Which is being said by … no one. I return to my toilet training analogy. Seriously. No problem for kid to master pooping in the potty at 18 months. A few do. And no problem if it takes until three. The problem is when parents try to strictly impose a schedule on them and force the issue. That’s when we see kids who hold it in and get into a withholding constipation cycle and a few who are have stool accidents into grade school (encopresis). Early pooping the potty is not better or worse pooping in the potty.Same with reading in kindergarten. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/37 "2025-10-02T08:11:22Z")
Counter-argument to those people: Finland, where homework and constant testing are de-emphasized, and all school students in grades 1-9 do art, music, cooking, carpentry, metalwork, and textiles. > **[The Children Must Play](https://newrepublic.com/article/82329/education-reform-finland-us)** > > What the United States could learn from Finland about education reform ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/38 "2025-10-02T10:45:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which is being said by … no one. Well, the OP sure seems to be saying that we shouldn’t have academics in kindergarten, and a lot of other posters sure seem to be agreeing. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/39 "2025-10-02T10:57:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > the OP sure seems to be saying that we shouldn’t have academics in kindergarten Where? I’m seeing “too academically focused,” not “shouldn’t have academics at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2025, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564/40 "2025-10-02T11:41:40Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You are not describing a typical preschool. I need an operational definition of “typical preschool”. Preschool in and of itself is a federally funded program. There is a Daycare 1/2 mile from us that advertises “Free Preschool”. In that context, it is pretty much just Daycare. However, if an Illinois K-8 public school adds that same federally funded Preschool, it brings all the dynamics into play that I described in my previous post. In fact, the funding becomes split. All the extra services I described are funded through our budget, so parents registering for Preschool here have to satisfy the same Illinois state requirements that are in place for K-8 registration. I think this is very germane to the OP because, if you want a more relaxed and play based approach to early childhood, enroll your kid in a Preschool that is attached to a Daycare. If you want the benefit of all of the things I described surrounding our Preschool, enroll your kid in a Illinois K-8 attached Preschool. Notice that I said, “Illinois K-8”, because states vary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-kindergarten-is-too-academically-focused-and-should-be-more-play-based/1023564.md?page=3)