Yes, I’m aware of that. Should we similarly ban the selling of books of prophecies, the selling of religious candles, etc.? Should it be illegal to draw a salary as a preacher, unless you’re Unitarian?
Or should we declare that purchase of religious/magical services is a caveat emptor situation?
I’d far prefer to do the latter, because I’m not sure how you do the former without rewriting the first amendment.
Left Hand of Dorkness, would you think a ban on newspapers would be allowed under the First Amendment? That is, you can report the news, but you cannot charge for people to read it?
ETA: Sorry, that’s better addressed to Dio.
You can also do it as a business as long as you do not make fraudulent claims about it. Or rather, you could do it as a business if there were not this pointless law against it.
I will never understand it. All the Dopers who want to legalize prostitution and drugs are all aghast at the notion of letting some fool go to a fortune-teller if she wants to.
How is this any different from gambling? Claims that you will get rich from gambling are just as valid as claims that your palm predicts your future. Sometimes someone wins a jackpot. Sometimes cold reading hits a nerve. As long as they don’t guarantee you will win the jackpot or they can read the future, then leave them alone.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m for banning any attempt to sell magical services. Why should we allow religious loopholes for scams and frauds? Let them give that shit away all they want, but once they make it commercial, they are subject to the same controls as anybody else.
How is a newspaper defrauding anybody, or not delivering on what it claims to deliver?
How are drugs and prostitution fraudulent products? Even with gambling, there actually is a legitimate chance you could win. There is no theoretical chance at all that another person can see your future. Why should people be able to sell entirely fraudulent products? Can I sell stero boxes full of sawdust (and tell the customers they have stereos in them) if I claim to have a religious belief that the sawdust really is a stereo?
What kind of commercial fraud could NOT be defended as religious freedom if all you have to say is that you personally believe your own claims?
ETA, nobody’s trying to stop anybody from going to fortune tellers, only trying to stop them from being financially defrauded.
Since no one can tell the future, they should ban it. Its fraud
Exit polling relies on statistical data which can be extrapolated. Using hard science is not fraud, even if wrong
Should Borders or Amazon be prevented from selling books on Astrology or Homeopathy?
There’s no claim of a personal service in that.
Should people be allowed to sell plastic rings and say they believe it’s really gold? Should they be able to sell water and say it’s medicine? Wait, I guess they already do that.
Let’s take the Weekly World News as an example, when it was published. Had “news” right in the title, but seemed to report anything but.
Was it fraud? Would you have shut them down?
I don’t think anyone, from casinos to states that have lotteries, can legally claim that you’ll get rich from gambling.
These businesses do not make money from offering such services. You can do your own horoscope or make homeopathic “drugs” that consist entirely of water for yourself, if you choose.
In an ideal world, it would be possible to act against individuals/businesses that claim you’ll reap monetary returns on donations for alleged religious enterprises (like the preacher empire profiled in the New York Times yesterday, which depends on harvesting huge amounts of money from gullible people who think they’ll get rich from turning over their savings to these dirtbags). The difference in this case is the nebulousness of the claim that fortunetelling is part of some Gypsy “religion”. What’s the evidence for that?
“Tradition” and “heritage” are not enough. On numerous occasions, gypsies/Romany people have been implicated in other types of fraud as well as organized theft involving the creation of distractions in stores while members of the group haul away merchandise. Should such activity be protected under a religious exclusion clause as well?
It was a joke publication.
No, but there’s a right to sell sugar pills if you say on the box, “These are sugar pills and not real heart medication.”
I’ve NEVER seen a fortune-telling business that did not have a clearly worded disclaimer stating words to the effect of “This is for entertainment purposes only.”
The only place I’ve ever seen this stuff passed off as truth is in newspaper astrology columns. I don’t see disclaimers on those. And yet those are legal in Montgomery City.
So Penn & Teller shows should be illegal? Well, they admit they’re not really magic - but so do most fortune tellers. How about David Copperfield? He doesn’t actually come out and admit it’s all trickery.
One of the mottoes of the lottery in my state is 'It Could Happen". And there is all kinds of stuff on their website about the people who won millions. Not a word about everyone who lost. There is a huge billboard I used to see every day on my way to work, with the jackpot on it. The jackpot was up over $200 million at one point. The person who won it got rich from gambling for most people’s definition of “rich” and “gambling”, and it was certainly advertised.
And you can do your own fortune-telling, as well.
If the fortune-tellers make fraudulent claims, they can be prosecuted under the law just as other businesses are. Why should a fortune-teller who is not making a fraudulent claim be prevented from doing business?
I go to a fortune-teller, and she looks at my palm and says, “You have some connection to a woman named Mary.” (I actually heard a psychic do this, albeit on the radio). What fraud is being committed?
Regards,
Shodan
“I can predict your future for five dollars.”
“You can? Gosh! Here’s five dollars, what’s my future like?”
Peers into crystal ball “I see that you will face difficult obstacles, but you have a strong heart and a clear mind, and you will overcome them, though it will take effort.”
“Thanks, Mr. fortune teller! I really feel better, that was totally worth the five dollars.”
Why should the state be involved in this? And how is it different from what most Priests, Rabbis, Ministers, and Imams do?
No. But two homeopaths shouldn’t be allowed to marry.
There should just be a license. The test for the license would be to accurately predict one hundred coin flips in a row.
They shouldn’t, but your hypothetical fortune-teller doesn’t exist. Anyone claiming to be able to see the future is lying and by definition committing fraud.
That being said, I don’t think there should be a ban on fortune telling. If idiots want to waste their money on them, that’s there business. However, I don’t see a constitutional right to be able to charge money for fortune telling. Fortune advertise a service that is impossible to perform. That is technically fraud and there is no reason it can’t be specifically banned.
So if I say “Gimme 50 bucks and I’ll tell your future” that’s not OK, but if I say “gimme fifty bucks and I’ll give you this book which will tell you how to predict the future” that’s OK?
Just pass an amendment banning stupidity. That’ll fix everything.