# RESOLVED: Neil Young best artist of 20th century **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 24, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516 "2002-11-24T19:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/61 "2002-11-26T19:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*Debbie Gibson? Nah, unless she’s nude she’s not in the top 400. Gah… 'twas a high price to pay for such a lame bit of sarcasm… I’ll have that damn song in my head all day now. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/62 "2002-11-26T19:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*Isn’t it possible to discuss/debate/appreciate artistic merit without resorting to personal preference? > > NY is certainly not one of my personal faves - tho I do not particularly mind him. I never bought one of his albums (tho I inherited a few of my wife’s). > > But I find the volume and quality of his output impressive - in fact - nigh unequalled. And he certainly was - and arguably continues to be - an “important figure” in the history of American rock. \*\* I don’t think it is possible. Art, whether music, visual, dance or any other is a very personal experience. I agree that Young is an important figure in rock. However, his music has no appeal for me. That’s a personal opinion certainly, but so is any statement about the quality of music, beyond a general acknowledgement of technical ability, which I grant Young does possess. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/63 "2002-11-26T20:01:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lazlo \* > \*\*Gah… 'twas a high price to pay for such a lame bit of sarcasm… I’ll have that damn song in my head all day now. \*\* Hey Laz, you’re the one who brought her up. But I think I can help. LAZLO, DO NOT THINK OF “TIE A YELLOW RIBBON” BY TONY ORLANDO AND DAWN. There. That ought to do it. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/64 "2002-11-26T23:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > \*\*It’s funny that the people with the most stridently negative opinions seem to have the least amount of evidence to base them on. > > \*\* I wouldn’t say that; I base my negative opinion of Neil Young on having listened to his music. What else should I base an opinion about a musician on? (Oh, **photopat** , I’ll see your “Yellow Ribbon”, and raise you one “Sugar Sugar” :D) ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/65 "2002-11-27T00:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Crosby, Stills, and Nash are minimum-talent hacks who don’t deserve the honor of tuning Neil’s guitars. All their best songs were written by Neil - which are infinitely better when he does them by himself. You _are_ drunk, right? 🙂 I mean, Deja Vu, 4+20, all of the albums CSN and Crosby, Stills, & Nash? Compared to what, “Medley: I have a whiny voice; I am adequate on guitar; My career should have been done with long ago”? Listen to all NY’s performance with CSN, and then listen to his solo performances of the same songs (which the twits who run radio stations insist on playing). You’ll note that the latter appears to have a dying cat overdubbed on it, and the timing is all off. Which leads me to one of two conclusions: 1. Neil Young is better when CSN play his stuff with (for?) him (and return it to the realm of “music”) 2. Neil Young is one sick puppy who like torturing cats, and we shouldn’t support his habit. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/66 "2002-11-27T01:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*I wouldn’t say that; I base my negative opinion of Neil Young on having listened to his music. What else should I base an opinion about a musician on? > > (Oh, **photopat** , I’ll see your “Yellow Ribbon”, and raise you one “Sugar Sugar” :D) \*\* Featherlou, Don’t make me pull out a “Wildfire” on you. Oops. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/67 "2002-11-27T01:57:27Z")
OK, you, two, that’s it. _I said-a S, K, O-O, B, Y, D, O-O, O-O, O-O, Looky over there, sunshine in her hair, that’s my girl, her name is Skoobydoo…_ Had enough, or do I have to pull out the Bee Gees? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/68 "2002-11-27T02:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > anyone else remember as late as **The River** when it was still common for people to say they would like Bruce but they couldn’t stand his voice? 😉 A nice, smooth, melodic voice has never been a necessity for rock n’ roll, from Dylan to Nirvana, and back to Dylan again. > [@](#): > > RTF - I still have to put in my plug for duration. Especially when you compare how high he is on the many other tests we’ve identified. Then, realize that he was huge in the 60s. Then he was huge with another generation in the 70s. I’d consider that to be one generation, from “Mr. Soul” to _Rust Never Sleeps_. > [@](#): > > Then he was huge with his previous fans’ younger siblings and children with FarmAid and “This Notes for You.” Ah, no. U2 was (and is) huge with that generation. Nirvana was huge. Guns N’ Roses was huge. Mellencamp was pretty big. Neil was briefly a respectable medium with that generation, AFAICT. > [@](#): > > Then in the nineties a whole new generation became aware of him through grunge. Aware, but not really big. > [@](#): > > Whereas, Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow have not “reinvented” themselves - instead they age along with their fan base. Neil Diamond hasn’t. But Manilow has evolved musically, actually. (I’m married to a Barry fan, unfortunately. Bear with me here.) Not much of it leaks into his live performances, because he’s a showman, and knows what people are ready to shell out the big bucks to hear. But his CDs haven’t sounded like “Mandy” or “I Write the Songs” for ages. And perhaps no band in the world has been as successful at reinventing themselves for different generations as the Bee Gees, who had a top-10 hit in the mid-90s. People forget that their 1970s disco-era incarnation was itself a reinvention; in the late 1960s, they’d done teary-eyed early-adolescent pop like “How Can You Mend a Broken Heart” and “I Just Gotta Get a Message to You”. And in the 1980s and 1990s, they did successive self-reinventions, and kept on selling records. Yet neither the Bee Gees nor Manilow belongs on the list of rock n’ roll greats. (If there’s a list of lite-pop greats, they both belong there. :)) To the extent that they broke new ground, it wasn’t very interesting territory. We may have to agree to disagree, but on the basis of the Bee Gees alone, I’ve got to reaffirm my stand that duration, by itself - or even when accompanied with a fair amount of reinvention - doesn’t add up to much. There has to be enough duration to produce several albums’ worth of topnotch stuff, but that can be (and in the Sixties, _was_ routinely) done within a few years. (Must’ve been better grass back then. ;)) A bunch of additional decades without any new music that really rocks people’s worlds, just doesn’t count, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/69 "2002-11-27T03:03:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > “Rockin’ in the Free World” and “Heart of Gold” (which was his only #1 hit) are two of Neil’s worst songs. Well, that’s a matter of opinion. I’d say “Heart of Gold” deserved to get Neil about halfway to the Rock N’ Roll HoF all by itself. “Rockin’ in the Free World” wasn’t exactly a classic, but it hasn’t worn out its welcome, either. > [@](#): > > “Harvest Moon” is one of the greatest songs of all time, and the entire \*Harvest Moon \*album is simply flawless and brilliant. I _like_ “Harvest Moon”, and it’s every bit as good as “Harvest”. But then you start comparing albums. Nothing wrong with _Harvest Moon_, but on _Harvest_, “Harvest” is the sac-fly RBI after “Out on the Weekend” has hit a leadoff triple. > [@](#): > > Crosby, Stills, and Nash are minimum-talent hacks who don’t deserve the honor of tuning Neil’s guitars. All their best songs were written by Neil - which are infinitely better when he does them by himself. First, let’s listen to “Suite: Judy Blue Eyes”. Or “Helplessly Hoping”. Or “Right Between the Eyes,” or “Carry On,” or “Wooden Ships,” “Love the One You’re With,” “Chicago,” “Deja Vu,” “4+20”…now, _what_ was that about Neil writing all their best songs? > [@](#): > > Of course, considering the music that’s popular today, it seems a vast majority of people have serious problems. [geezer] “Kids these days - they call that stuff _music_??” [/geezer] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/70 "2002-11-27T03:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*“Rockin’ in the Free World” and “Heart of Gold” (which was his only #1 hit) are two of Neil’s worst songs. Leave it to radio to screw him over. > > “Harvest Moon” is one of the greatest songs of all time, and the entire \*Harvest Moon [i/]album is simply flawless and brilliant. > > … \*\* Good lord o lordy. The only thing you are right on here is that Heart of Gold is one of his worst songs, or anybody’s worst that have hit the big time. Rockin’ in the Free World is the best protest song ever, better than Won’t Get Fooled Again and Eve of Destruction. Pure unadulterated anger. Harvest Moon is one of the few Neil Young albums in my 1000 CD collection (Decade and the one with Rockin’ are also there), and it is a nice album, with two very enjoyable songs and some other good tunes. It could only be a great album to someone who has had his head up Neil’s butt for 30 years. There are other artists you might like listening to. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/71 "2002-11-27T03:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > Isn’t it possible to discuss/debate/appreciate artistic merit without resorting to personal preference? I can’t see why not. I think it’s possible, to a fair extent, to separate the personal from the objective. For instance, I genuinely dislike Pink Floyd. But I have to admit they’re talented, and have made a major contribution to rock n’ roll. They’re just not my cup of tea, is all. I don’t dislike Rush, but I don’t really care for them either, and they don’t get overplayed on classic rock stations the way Floyd does (if I hear “Money” one more time, I may call up a bomb threat to a radio station), so I really don’t have a sense of what they’ve musically accomplished. But people who I think _do_ know something about rock n’ roll like them a lot, so I suspect there’s something there. I can’t get past the lead singer’s squeaky voice, but _that’s my personal dislike_. It doesn’t mean Rush blows goats. It just means that I’ll never be in a position to say one way or the other about Rush. And while I’m personally a big Moody Blues fan, I can understand why they’re _not_ up there with Neil Young: once they learned how to do that particular Cosmic Rock sound, that was pretty much their thing. They put out a lot of very good Cosmic Rock, IMHO (and some extremely sappy stuff: for instance, can someone take “Isn’t Life Strange?” out back and shoot it?), and I happen to really like their flavor of Cosmic Rock, but when they tried anything else, it wasn’t worth listening to. They were a very impressive group, within the narrow limits of their self-created genre, and only within those limits. I think people here are intelligent enough to do this sort of thing, to hold their personal musical likes and dislikes at arm’s length for just a moment or two, _if they’re willing to try_. It isn’t _that_ difficult. But it does involve some modest effort. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/72 "2002-11-27T06:53:55Z")
\*It could only be a great album to someone who has had his head up Neil’s butt for 30 years. \* I haven’t even been alive 30 years 🙂 Harvest Moon was actually the album that made me say “wow, this guy friggin rules.” Before that, he was just that old guy with the fuzzy sideburns who sings that rockin in the free world song with eddie vedder on mtv. Harvest Moon is what got me hooked. I think that album, along with “Trace” by Son Volt, are probably the two most perfect rock recordings of all time (sure, there are plenty of others too… Zeppelin IV, some Dylan, etc.; I’m not saying they’re the _only_ two perfect albums ever made). _on Harvest, “Harvest” is the sac-fly RBI after “Out on the Weekend” has hit a leadoff triple._ I would certainly agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![octothorpe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b77776/32.png) [@octothorpe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octothorpe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/73 "2002-11-27T09:11:33Z")
Being a long time fan of Neil Young myself, i can certainly understand your your enthusiasm **kalt** , but you got to remember lad, it’s a big old world out there and folks generally don’t take too kindly to no young whippersnapper making a declaration such as yours. In the words of _ **Yosemite Sam** _, “Them’s fightin’ words, varmint.” I agree that Neil Young wrote many great songs (and a great many songs) and will always be one of my favorite artists, but, as with anybody else, it is a personal thing. No matter how strongly i feel about that, it certainly doesn’t take away from the greatness of any other artists. Your derision of **David Crosby** , **Steven Stills** and **Graham Nash** is unseemly, bordering on petulence. I personally feel that the sum of CSN is greater than its parts but cannot deny that they are each extraordinary artists in their own rights. I think that Neil Young is the square peg in the round hole of CSN&Y, but that he also provides the friction needed to make CSN&Y a great band. The thing is, no matter how much we may wish, no one person (or group of persons) can do all things equally well. It is impossible for me to say, no matter how much i like Neil Young, that _Old Man_ is better than **Eric Clapton’s** _Bell Bottom Blues_; two entirely different things. I find also that i agree with a lot of what **RTFirefly** wrote, especially his mention of _Right Between the Eyes_. When i bought my first copy of _ **4-Way Street** _, i couldn’t stop listening to that song. It was the most unexpected (though pleasantly so) surprise on the album. A surprising fact: _ **4-Way Street** _ was one of the few albums to win Album of the Year without a #1 hit on it (even more surprising, **Pink Floyd** did it twice with _ **Dark Side of the Moon** _ and _ **Wish You Were Here** _). There are, no doubt, plenty of people on this board (myself included) who would be happy to enter into lengthy discourse in regards Neil Young and his music, but few, if fear, who will share your ‘resolution’. # ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/74 "2002-11-27T13:35:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*“Harvest Moon” is one of the greatest songs of all time, and the entire \*Harvest Moon [i/]album is simply flawless and brilliant. > > . \*\* Lord, that is one BORING record. I think the man has written some great stuff. But he’s a terrible singer. And a very poor guitarist as well. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/75 "2002-11-28T03:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*spooje \*\*\* > And a very poor guitarist as well. False. But I’m really posting to say that > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **RTFirefly** _ > on Harvest, “Harvest” is the sac-fly RBI after “Out on the Weekend” has hit a leadoff triple. must be the best and most true analogy, of any kind, on any subject, that I have _ever_ come across. And also I want to agree with **Kalt** that every single one of CSNY’s best songs were written by Neil, and that every single one of CSNY’s songs that Neil has performed solo has sounded better by several degrees of magnitude when he did them himself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516/76 "2002-11-28T11:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by White Lightning \* > But I’m really posting to say that must be the best and most true analogy, of any kind, on any subject, that I have _ever_ come across. ::bows:: Why, thanks. 🙂 > [@](#): > > And also I want to agree with **Kalt** that every single one of CSNY’s best songs were written by Neil _Chestnut brown canary, ruby throated sparrow…_ I still beg to differ. But I’ll take that out on you in the Dip game that **Abe Babe** is GMing. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-neil-young-best-artist-of-20th-century/138516.md?page=3)