Now that I’ve thought about it, I have to agree with you. I can find another dozen that I think belong there. But there would be fewer consensus picks in the group.
Petula Clark…man, how the heck did she sneak in here? I remember listening to her stuff back when it was originally on the radio! ::looks up:: Ah yes, Michael Ellis put her in the same list as Rachmaninoff, Coltrane, and Aretha.
Who else, seriously? Bowie, Springsteen, the Doors, Hendrix. I’ll see who else I can come up with.
Well, I’d want to keep career duration and sheer volume out of it, because it opens up the field too widely. Neil Diamond, the Bee Gees, Chicago, Barry Manilow, and Lord knows how many others have had long careers that, like Neil Young’s, have been extremely productive in terms of the number of albums released. YMMV, but I have to start by weeding out the stuff that was bad, or even merely ordinary. (For instance, I’m a big Moody Blues fan, but in considering any claim of theirs for greatness, I’ve got to toss out all but four or five songs they’ve done since Seventh Sojourn was released thirty years ago. Sheer quantity doesn’t add anything, IMHO.)
Neil Young isn’t even in the top 50.
Off the top of my head, in no particular order. (The numbers are just so I can keep track of how many I’ve listed)
1 John Lennon
2 Paul McCartney
3 George Harrison
4 Bob Dylan
5 Tom Petty
6 Jimi Hendrix
7 Jim Morrison
8 Carol King
9 Elvis Costello
10 Frank Sinatra
11 Mick Jagger
12 Keith Richards
13 Stevie Wonder
14 Ray Charles
15 Annie Lennox
16 Pete Townsend
17 Sting
18 Shawn Colvin
19 Johnny Cash
20 Joe Walsh
21 Pavoratti
22 Billie Holiday
23 Roy Orbison
24 Buddy Holly
25 Ringo Starr
26 John Sebastian
27 David Bowie
28 Bruce Springsteen
29 Jean Pierre Rampaul
30 Jimmy Webb
31 Tom Waits
32 Brian Wilson
33 Graham Nash
34 Paul Simon
35 Carl Perkins
36 Jewel
37 Tori Amos
38 Michelle Branch
39 Carlos Santana
40 Willie Nelson
41 Roy Clark
42 Emmylou Harris
43 Yoyo Ma
44 Glen Miller
45 Benny Goodman
46 Louis Armstrong
47 Miles Davis
48 Charlie Parker
49 Elton John
50 Gene Krupa.
Also, any time a Neil Young song comes on the air I feel the wax start to flow out of my ears. His voice sucks.
WOW. I wouldn’t put Young as number 1 of all time. But listed behind John Sebastian? Jewel? Jimmy Webb? Joe Walsh? Shawn Colvin? Roy Clark? Tori Amos? Michelle Branch? hummm.
One of the first list shows VH1 did was greatest rock act of all time. I think Young came in at #30. Not that these lists mean all that much. But, imho, 30 is about right?
Francis Albert Sinatra
Reinvented singing by introducing his phrasing emphasis technique. And he could sing as well as any of his contemporaries, including Bennett, Torme, Crosby, or his own favorite, Como.
Dancing: he could dance well enough to keep up with Gene Kelly
Acting: he could go mono y mono with Marlon Brando (Guys and Dolls) and come out looking good (i.e. not having Brando steal their scenes).
So as far as entertainment goes, even though I’m not happy with his lifestyle choices (other than Democrat), I think that Sinatra blows away another suggestion so far in this thread.
But there are many other artistic fields that require mentioning: Architecture (my 20th cen fav is Frank Lloyd Wright), Painting – Picasso, Playwriting – O’Neil, Sculpting – Rodin (some in 20th century including Gates of Hell), composition – Stravinsky, popular song writing – Irving Berlin, General weirding us out: Heisenberg/Bohr tie
Anybody espousing Neil Young’s superior genius should be forced to buy and listen to 4 Way Street, so they can hear how much better his songs sound when you add in Crosby, Stills, and Nash.
Then they should be forced to buy and listen to Deja Vu, so they can discover that every other contributer to the album wrote songs that hold up to “Helpless”, which is far and away the best thing Young ever wrote. Nyah.
It’s funny that the people with the most stridently negative opinions seem to have the least amount of evidence to base them on.
notcynical pretty much said it all for me, though.
Neil’s had his ups and downs (who hasn’t, and his career spans what, five decades now?) over the years, but he’s been able to do a wider range of things legitimately and sincerely than pretty much anyone, ever. The CSNY stuff, the rockin’ Freedom stuff, alt-country (?) through to real country Neil Young and Comes a Time, the classic and enduring songs of the Decade era, the ingenuity and originality of Lucky 13 and Trans, the blues of This Note’s For You and the throwback rock of Everybody’s Rockin’, the fact that he was able to keep up with the times and release the tragically, tragically underrated Mirror Ball, the absolute genius of Sleeps With Angels, and everything in between. It’s completely absurd to argue that he’s not incredibly talented.
“Rockin’ in the Free World” and “Heart of Gold” (which was his only #1 hit) are two of Neil’s worst songs. Leave it to radio to screw him over.
“Harvest Moon” is one of the greatest songs of all time, and the entire *Harvest Moon [i/]album is simply flawless and brilliant.
Crosby, Stills, and Nash are minimum-talent hacks who don’t deserve the honor of tuning Neil’s guitars. All their best songs were written by Neil - which are infinitely better when he does them by himself. Ditto for buffalo springfield. Listen to the Springfield “Nowadays Clancy Can’t Even Sing” - it’s friggin horrible. Then listen to neil do it by himself - with nothing other than his guitar - and it’s simply amazing. It’s mindblowing that it’s even the same song.
Anyone who thinks neil can’t sing or play guitar needs to go watch his “Silver and Gold” DVD. If that doesn’t prove to ya that Neil is the best, then you have serious problems Of course, considering the music that’s popular today, it seems a vast majority of people have serious problems.
An interesting approach shows Bing Crosby and Doris Day as the two most successful entertainers in history. Each had more albums, movies, awards, and popularity in their era than the other top performers put together!(ie:Elvis,Beatles,Stones etc)
My own opinion…hmm, Seems like Paul McCartney’d kick the shit out of Young when it comes to BEST anything.
I also got a chuckle out of photo’s list. besides the obvious comments, anyone else remember as late as The River when it was still common for people to say they would like Bruce but they couldn’t stand his voice?
RTF - I still have to put in my plug for duration. Especially when you compare how high he is on the many other tests we’ve identified. Then, realize that he was huge in the 60s. Then he was huge with another generation in the 70s. Then he was huge with his previous fans’ younger siblings and children with FarmAid and “This Notes for You.” Then in the nineties a whole new generation became aware of him through grunge.
Whereas, Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow have not “reinvented” themselves - instead they age along with their fan base.
I found Shakey an interesting read, tho leaning towards hagiography. Led me to read 3 other books recently about NY and CSNY. And check out much of his/their output. Guy must be frustrating as all hell to work with. Don’t think you can accuse him of selling out.
Of course I disagree with the OP’s best artist. And I don’t know how many rock/pop artists would make the top fifty “musical figures” of the 20th century. But in the rock/pop genre, I maintain Neil’s place is among a select few at or very near the top.
Sorry–I’m firmly in the “Neil Young’s voice blows goats” camp. I’ve got respect for him as an artist, but not that much respect. I can think of dozens of more talented musical artists in the last forty years.
Y’know, I think I’d rank Richard Thompson ahead of Young in every way: better songwriter, better guitarist (by far), better singer (though neither is going to take prizes there.) And Thompson’s overall output over the last 30 years has been much more consistent than Young’s.
Okay, maybe not Ringo, and maybe not Roy Clark, (although he is/was an exceptional guitar player) but the point is that…well, those are all people I’d rather hear than Neil Young.
Debbie Gibson? Nah, unless she’s nude she’s not in the top 400.
Tori Amos though, definitely far and away better than Neil.
A radio station I used to listen to actually got a bomb threat phoned into them that if they played “Harvest Moon” one more time the station would face consequences.
Someone other than myself actually hated that song something fierce.
Isn’t it possible to discuss/debate/appreciate artistic merit without resorting to personal preference?
NY is certainly not one of my personal faves - tho I do not particularly mind him. I never bought one of his albums (tho I inherited a few of my wife’s).
But I find the volume and quality of his output impressive - in fact - nigh unequalled. And he certainly was - and arguably continues to be - an “important figure” in the history of American rock.
Of course, considering the music that’s popular today, it seems a vast majority of people have serious problems.
