# Resolved: People have the right to kill themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499 "2003-08-29T19:51:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/21 "2003-08-31T19:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. It seems conciousness continues for a brief period of time after the heart and breathing stops, and the person gets revived. But that doesn’t prove you’re conciousness continues when you’re embalmed and 6 feet under. \*\* May I remind you that near death experiencers see, talk to, exchange verifiable information with relatives who died years before their experience. Its all there. Just that it needs to be read. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/22 "2003-08-31T20:33:48Z")
I think there’s a balance to be made. People should be allowed to die to end their suffering, but you also have to somehow factor in the suffering caused by the suicide as well. Of course, this is nearly impossible in most cases, but someone slowing dying of a very painful disease committing suicide is likely to lessen the total suffering of the community. And I recommend that people not try to convince **lekatt** that his “proof” of life-after-death isn’t proof; it’s an impossible task that’s hijacked several good threads already. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/23 "2003-09-01T02:16:53Z")
DNFT **L**. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/24 "2003-09-01T03:07:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*May I remind you that near death experiencers see, talk to, exchange verifiable information with relatives who died years before their experience. > > Its all there. Just that it needs to be read. \*\* Even assuming that everything you say is true, you are hijacking the thread. This is about whether people should have the right to commit suicide, not about life after death. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/25 "2003-09-01T03:46:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*Even assuming that everything you say is true, you are hijacking the thread. This is about whether people should have the right to commit suicide, not about life after death. \*\* In case you didn’t notice, my vote was no. This rest was explanation of the no vote. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/26 "2003-09-01T04:01:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*I think there’s a balance to be made. People should be allowed to die to end their suffering, but you also have to somehow factor in the suffering caused by the suicide as well. Of course, this is nearly impossible in most cases, but someone slowing dying of a very painful disease committing suicide is likely to lessen the total suffering of the community. > > And I recommend that people not try to convince **lekatt** that his “proof” of life-after-death isn’t proof; it’s an impossible task that’s hijacked several good threads already. \*\* In a recent UK study only one percent of suicides are over 65 and in bad health. Don’t worry about the community, consider the individual. Message on support board: a couple had an argument, the guy went home and killed himself. The girl was destroyed, took months of discussion before she could let go of the incident and start living her life again. A son killed himself (drugs), his father was destroyed so badly he lost his job and eventually died wandering in a forest. These are common events. As for the life after death: we will all be very sure of what happens in the long run. Love ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/27 "2003-09-01T04:03:06Z")
> [@](#): > > People who have NDEs come back with no fear of death or life. This is very helpful to those who do fear death. It is a shame our children are taught misinformation in school about religious ideas. I recently graduated from High School, and I can assure you that my school didn’t hand out “misinformation” about religion, they stayed _neutral_ on the subject. > [@](#): > > If there were no higher intelligence and if life didn’t continue after death. Then it would be true that life is not worth living. It would have no purpose, no meaning, no anything. Perhaps YOU believe that, but a lot of people enjoy life just fine without belief in God, the afterlife, or the supernatural. Life has whatever purpose you choose to give it. > [@](#): > > Science is doing the world a great disservice teaching its propaganda that we are only pieces of meat. Science and Religion ideally are not hostile towards one another. They can actually be compatable with each other. The best explanation I’ve heard is: Science is about cosmic _function_ Religion is about cosmic _purpose_ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/28 "2003-09-01T18:56:23Z")
Somewhere around the turn of the century last, science began to take notice of the psyche. This interest gradually became more spectulative. The “science” of psychology and psychiatry emerged, and became more and more authoritarian, despite the fact that the psyche was/cannot be defined. These so-called sciences develped many schools like denominations of religion. In the sixties bumper stickers began to show up saying “God is Dead”. It was thought that science had truly proved the brain as source of psyche. Religion was laughted at and thought to be only for the ignorant, etc. The truth is science has shown nothing to diminish spiritual values and thought, but still turn out students from the schools who believe science is unfallible and spiritual things are superstition. The most learned scientist knows no more about the psyche of man than the average worker on the street, they just think they do. Our country is full of drug abuse, drinking, depression, and loss of hope. Science can’t help one bit. We will have to turn to spiritual values to heal, or stay sick. I am not talking about “that ol’ time religion.” I am talking about the new evidence of spirit. Oh, well, forget it. Love ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/29 "2003-09-01T19:15:57Z")
Should nursing mothers have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/30 "2003-09-01T19:29:49Z")
> [@](#): > > In the sixties bumper stickers began to show up saying “God is Dead”. It was thought that science had truly proved the brain as source of psyche. Religion was laughted at and thought to be only for the ignorant, etc. By all appearances, the brain is the source of the psyche. Witness person with alzheimers mentally wasting away to a hollow shell of their previous selves, and then look at a before/after brain scan. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/31 "2003-09-01T19:41:48Z")
Ah, yes. “God is dead.” Possibly the most misunderstood of all Nietzsche’s statements. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/32 "2003-09-01T20:04:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*By all appearances, the brain is the source of the psyche. Witness person with alzheimers mentally wasting away to a hollow shell of their previous selves, and then look at a before/after brain scan. \*\* Appearances are deceiving. [http://www.ndeweb.com/wildcard/](http://www.ndeweb.com/wildcard/) [http://www.ndeweb.com/info02.htm](http://www.ndeweb.com/info02.htm) ---
**Author:** ![cole\_burner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/33 "2003-09-01T20:17:40Z")
kekatt: thanks for hijacking my thread with the loony fringe report. > [@](#): > > In the OP you suggest that the act of taking life-threatening drugs, even if the person isn’t consciously trying to die, the fact is that you’re trying to kill yourself and want to die subconsciously. Do you really believe that every 17 year old at a party that tries ecstasy/crystal meth/acid etc. secretly wants to die? I think you seriously overestimate the analytical skills of people who are already drunk, possibly high on the non-life-threatening marijuana, and under the severe influence of peer pressure. > > My question: Are you saying that this should be religiously allowed, ethically allowed, or legally allowed? Because you talk about morals here, but obviously ethics are subjective, and I’m sure different religions have different stands on the issue. So what status quo are you trying to modify with your resolution? Even if they don’t have an explicit detah wish, the 17 year olds that are dosing themselves with drugs know that they could die. They’ve been told by TV ads and classroom lessons. If they continue to do it, they don’t deserve any sympathy if they die or injure themselves and not one dollar of my taxes should go to a hospital that offers them care. If they happen to live, fine, if they die, fine as well. Why should my efforts pay for their idiocy? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/34 "2003-09-01T20:45:54Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by lekatt \* \*\*Appearances are deceiving. [QUOTE] How do you explain the brain differences in depression, and the resulting positive changes that come with the administration of drugs? What do the spirits have to do with that? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/35 "2003-09-01T21:21:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*Science can’t help one bit. \*\* The only thing science can’t help is a claim that is undemonstrable. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/36 "2003-09-01T22:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*How do you explain the brain differences in depression, and the resulting positive changes that come with the administration of drugs? What do the spirits have to do with that? \*\* It’s worth noting that no one understands the brain differences in depression (or the lack of them), and no one can currently explain the resulting positive changes that come with the administration of drugs. It goes without saying that “the spirits” is not a valid explanation given the available evidence. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/37 "2003-09-01T22:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\*S **TVAA** , you know exactly where to draw the line? Cigarette smokers don’t count? How about marijuana smokers? Coke snorters? Crack heads? Heroine addicts? Tell us. \*\* My proposal is both simpler and more profound: until we have objective criteria for distinguishing people who are truly “sick” from those who merely have conditions we view as undesirable, we shouldn’t draw the line at all. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/38 "2003-09-02T14:26:18Z")
I don’t think anyone has the right to play God. I agree with Autz. I hope Dr. Kevorkian finds God in jail and learns his lesson! No one has the right to help people in desperate situtaions (especially those who are not in the right frame of mind) kill themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/39 "2003-09-02T15:32:11Z")
[Montgomery Burns]Keeping this man alive is going to cost me thousands of dollars per year. I demand that he be allowed to die with dignity![/Montgomery Burns] ---
**Author:** ![cole\_burner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499/40 "2003-09-02T16:06:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*I don’t think anyone has the right to play God. > > I agree with Autz. > > I hope Dr. Kevorkian finds God in jail and learns his lesson! No one has the right to help people in desperate situtaions (especially those who are not in the right frame of mind) kill themselves. \*\* And why is it that you and your buddies get to decide the “right” state of mind, Isabelle? If anyone is playing God, it’s you. I’m all for God. Let God help those he wants to help, and if you kill yourself, then it is obvious that God hated you and wanted you to die, after all, it was within his power to save you and he didn’t. So, stop playing God, Isabelle! Let people live or die according to the great and mighty will of God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-people-have-the-right-to-kill-themselves/198499.md?page=3)