# Resolved: Plano ISD Did Not Ban Red & Green Because They're Christmas Colors. Discuss **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091 "2006-02-18T14:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/1 "2006-02-18T14:50:42Z")
Recently, **Bricker** posted this thread; [War on Christmas - revisited](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=356442), wherein one of the examples he used to illustrate his point was a currently pending case against the Plano Independent School District in Plano, Texas, by some parents who were up in arms that their children were asked to only bring white decorations to an elementary school holiday party, and have claimed that the colors of red and green were specifically banned due to district policy because they represented Christmas. These allegations were alledged to be supported by at least one letter the parents received from the school. There were other cases and other discussions therein, but this thread is strictly about the Plano case and not the general “war on Christmas,” which **Bricker** has since conceded doesn’t exist, at least as originally presented in his OP (I think – correct me if I’m wrong about that). To save people the trouble of wading through all 14 pages to find the relevant bits, I’ll condense the debate, providing direct links to read the posts in their entirety: > [@](#): > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7049332&postcount=9)**: [One example is] a school principle (sic) who imposes a no-red-and-green decorations policy for the “winter party” because he believes that this is necessary or prudent to avoid a future lawsuit. > > **[Left Hand of Dorkness](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7049368&postcount=13)**: I believe the red and green story is a canard > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7051150&postcount=32)**: [No, it] accurately reflects the policy of the Plano Scool District prior to the filing of the lawsuit > > **[Left Hand of Dorkness](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7052571&postcount=74)**: (paraphrased) The school district’s attorney says the letter was from the PTA, not the district > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7052698&postcount=77)**: The parents’ sworn declaration in support of their lawsuit alleges that red and green decorations were prohibited. – [Here’s the complaint](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7053121&postcount=116). > > **[Zakalwe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7053420&postcount=142)**: Please note that the part about red and green being banned because they are Christmas colors is _not_ in quotes and thus probably doesn’t actually appear in the letter itself. In fact, very little of the letter is quoted. I would say that the school limited items to the approved list, left red & green napkins off of the approved list, and the lawyer for the plaintiffs is alleging some anti-Christmas bias. Until you produce a copy of the letter, we have no way of knowing, do we? > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7053492&postcount=150)**: Well, I also have the interview conducted by Gibson of the plaintiffs. . . Surely that is enough to create a prima facie case for the truth of the matter. . . > > **[Left Hand of Dorkness](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7054504&postcount=199)**: I hope you’ll forgive me if I think that Bricker said that Gibson said that the plaintiffs said that the principal said that they were forbidding Christmas colors is a weak cite . If you can quote the exact text from Gibson’s book, that might be convincing; but then again, it might not be. > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7054526&postcount=200)** Would a scan of the original PISD letter be convincing? > > **[Gadarene](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7054575&postcount=201)**: Does it state that red and green aren’t allowed because they’re symbolic of Christianity? If so, then I’d find that damn convincing, yes. > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7074180&postcount=280)**: . . . I have an e-mail in to the attorney who represented the parents, requesting a scan of the letter. My understanding is that it’s a letter from the principal outling the school policy. That should solve this issue nicely. > > **[Left Hand of Dorkness](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7074996&postcount=303)**: I’m interested in seeing a scan of the letter that Bricker is trying to get; if it is indeed from the principle (sic) and says that (to quote Bricker) “the no-red-and-green decorations was intended to forbid Christmas colors,” I will be very surprised, and will concede that there’s actually something to this problem, especially in Plano. But I seriously doubt that’s going to be what the letter consists of. > > **[Shayna](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7076277&postcount=314)**: As do I, since our member who works for PISD. . . has reiterated that any letter that might exist would have come from the PTA, which is not in the least the same as the school DISTRICT, and that it’s highly unlikely that there was any such wordage that could be construed as forbidding Christmas colors as a matter of policy, seeing as how that’s factually incorrect. > > **[Bricker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7081391&postcount=434)**: I think the Plano letter, when (if) I get it, will settle the issue one way or the other. If the letter is from the district or the principal, as I’ve been given to understand, and claims that no red or green decorations are permitted as a matter of policy, that will prove my claims. If it does not, then I’ll have little choice but to withdraw Plano as an example. > > **[Shayna](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7082093&postcount=444)** Well if you don’t get it, perhaps I will. I have just sent a request to the school Superintendent’s office for a copy of the letter under the Texas Public Information Act. I am informed that the school is required to comply to any request for public documents within 4 days, assuming that this particular document isn’t excluded because it’s evidence in ongoing litigation or some other reason. Well, I got those letters the other day. They are here: [Cover sheet](http://www.amschwartz.net/jillandthomas/images/Plano001.jpg), [Letter No. 1](http://www.amschwartz.net/jillandthomas/images/Plano002.jpg) and [Letter No. 2](http://www.amschwartz.net/jillandthomas/images/Plano003.jpg). Note that the cover letter indicates that “Some information has been redacted in order to comply with FERPA regulations,” however, the obvious blocks of blacked-out text are not their redations, but were done by me, as they contained some personal contact information for me, as well as for some of the signatories of the letters. Although the district didn’t hide the phone numbers from me in forwarding me the documents, and they’re certainly available for anyone else who wants to get them simply by making the same Open Records Request I did, I felt it would be wrong for _me_ to take it upon myself to publish them on the web for millions of people to see, and potentially make harrassing phone calls to those individuals. Lastly, I did some research on the signatories of the letters and have determined the following: Ms. Goodyear (Sarah) – Fourth Grade Teacher, Thomas Elementary [http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm) Ms. Louis-Charles (Armandina) – Fourth Grade Teacher, Thomas Elementary [http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm) Robin Herrington – Probably a parent, no results via search Christine Wade – Could be faculty, Murphy Middle School [http://www.pisd.edu/schools/secondary/murphy/staff.shtml](http://www.pisd.edu/schools/secondary/murphy/staff.shtml), but it seems unlikely, as this was a Thomas Elementary party, and is probably a coincidentally similar name. Ms. Phillips – Too generic. Could be a parent Lisha Russo – No results via search. Probably a parent Ms. Dobrow (Susan) – Fourth Grade Teacher, Thomas Elementary [http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/FourthGrade/Fourth.htm) Mary Witkowski – School Supplies Committee Chairperson for the PTA [http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/PTAPage/PTA.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/PTAPage/PTA.htm) Tambra Clark – No results via search. Probably a parent Ms. Reynard – No results via search. Probably a parent Linda Swatterwhite – No results via search. Probably a parent Sheree Armstrong – Teacher Appreciation Committee Chairperson for the PTA [http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/PTAPage/PTA.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/schools/thomas/PTAPage/PTA.htm) Ms. Davis – Too generic, could be anybody Terri Spielberger – No results via search. Probably a parent Ms. Hinds – Hard to say; could be Kris Hinds, Third Grade teacher at Brinker Elementary, but like Christine Wade above, not really likely. [http://k-12.pisd.edu/Schools/Brinker3/Public\_html/teachers.htm](http://k-12.pisd.edu/Schools/Brinker3/Public_html/teachers.htm) Linda Black – No results via search. Probably a parent Jennifer Gustafson – No results via search. Probably a parent **Bricker** made 2 contentions regarding these letters; one that the letters were written [_by_ the Principal](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7074180&postcount=280), and the other that [they expressly forbade red and green](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7081391&postcount=434). So, now that we have the actual evidence in hand, it’s obvious that neither one came from the Principal, Lynn Swanson, but were, in fact, from members of the PTA, as others of us contended, so he’ll have to concede point #1. But is there a legitimate interpretation of the letters as “claim[ing] that no red or green decorations are permitted as a matter of policy,” or that they were in any other way an attempt to thwart anything to do with _Christmas_, in violation of the children’s First Amendment rights? That would certainly not be my interpretation, but I know you Straight Dopers ;), so discuss. . . ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/2 "2006-02-18T15:04:54Z")
Thank you for your summary - I was afraid of the other thread, but also curious. Reading the scans of the letters, I’d say \*\*Bricker \*\*will be dining on Corvus tonight. There is nothing damning there at all, just a simple form letter for organizing school parties, appropriate to any event. “Red and green” aren’t singled out for exclusion for any reason - purple plates would be just as frowned upon. This makes sense from a classroom management standpoint. By keeping all the donations white and therefore neutral, leftover supplies can be stored and used for something else, either another party or arts and crafts. I don’t see this as evidence for any “War on Christmas”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/3 "2006-02-18T15:13:19Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > …purple plates would be just as frowned upon. That would be because of the War on Homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/4 "2006-02-18T15:22:11Z")
I had originally thought the issue was that Plano ISD had banned the _wearing_ of the combination of red and green colors by students, although I’ll admit I found the whole issue so ridiculous that I hadn’t paid much attention to the story. Anyway, the language in the letter is clear: there is to be a Winter Break party, whatever that is, and any craft supplies provided by parents should be white. At no point are red and green, or any other colors, even mentioned, and there is no language indicating anything at all positive or negative concerning the holiday “Christmas”. I have a feeling someone’s going to fix on the term “Winter Break party” as indicating some sort of prejudice against Christmas, but that’s apparently not how the issue was originally presented by O’Reilly and the other “War on Christmas” lobbyists. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/5 "2006-02-18T15:38:13Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I had originally thought the issue was that Plano ISD had banned the _wearing_ of the combination of red and green colors by students, … Don’t worry about it. Some of us already see TWOC (the war on Christmas) for the crap it is, and we also recognize the various methods of raising the bar, moving the goalposts, and obfuscation by irelevant talking points. That’s the trick to it, just keep “adjusting” the issue. You were witnessing a kind of “OP drift”. That’s one of the reasons I kept my involvement to a minimum in that thread too. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/6 "2006-02-18T15:43:32Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Don’t worry about it. Some of us already see TWOC (the war on Christmas) for the crap it is, and we also recognize the various methods of raising the bar, moving the goalposts, and obfuscation by irelevant talking points. That’s the trick to it, just keep “adjusting” the issue. You were witnessing a kind of “OP drift”. That’s one of the reasons I kept my involvement to a minimum in that thread too. The OP in **Bricker’s** thread didn’t drift. It was in full sail, with brief stops in multiple ports… ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/7 "2006-02-18T16:13:14Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > “Red and green” aren’t singled out for exclusion for any reason - purple plates would be just as frowned upon. Purple is a bad choice for “arbitrary color that’s not red and green.” It’s the liturgical color for Advent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/8 "2006-02-18T16:16:09Z")
And on further review. the liturgical color for Christmas is white. Which was the color that the letter specifically asked parents to bring. I smell a Catholic conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/9 "2006-02-18T16:28:26Z")
Damn. Good work, **Shayna**. I think you’ve nailed this down as well is it can be nailed. I hope **Bricker** will be good enough to concede on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/10 "2006-02-18T17:05:37Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Damn. Good work, **Shayna**. I think you’ve nailed this down as well is it can be nailed. I hope **Bricker** will be good enough to concede on this issue. Yep–excellent OP, **Shayna** , and thanks for the research! Unless there are other letters out there (I believe **Bricker** claimed that the parents in the lawsuit received a personal letter from the principal [I got the spelling right this time]), I think this settles the issue. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/11 "2006-02-18T17:17:34Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Anyway, the language in the letter is clear: there is to be a Winter Break party, whatever that is, and any craft supplies provided by parents should be white. At no point are red and green, or any other colors, even mentioned, and there is no language indicating anything at all positive or negative concerning the holiday “Christmas”. I have a feeling someone’s going to fix on the term “Winter Break party” as indicating some sort of prejudice against Christmas, but that’s apparently not how the issue was originally presented by O’Reilly and the other “War on Christmas” lobbyists. Oh please ! Since when did we start calling the Christmas break a “Winter break” there is absolutely no cultural precedant for it and its introduction to replace previous term has to come from an agenda. So what is the agenda? Could this be some white supremicist agenda? Well now that they’re calling it a winter break we can abandon traditional Christmas colours and go for white. Only white. Since when has any school kid been told when performing Christmas art that they **have** to be restricted to to red or green? When before has kid tasked in a school system to perform arts and crafts been prohibited from using colour? And finally, does it snow at Christmas in Plano? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/12 "2006-02-18T17:41:39Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Since when did we start calling the Christmas break a “Winter break” > there is absolutely no cultural precedant for it and its introduction to replace previous term has to come from an agenda. So what is the agenda? > Could this be some white supremicist agenda? “We” started calling the break that occurs at the end of December (when Winter begins) the “Winter Break” when sufficient non-Christian kids began entering the schools that a reference to the Christian feast of Christmas made no real sense to them. YMMV Every school districts that I know that has begun calling it a “Winter Break” is run by white Christians, so I suppose it might be a white supremacist “agenda,” but that is not how I originally viewed it. > [@](#): > > When before has kid tasked in a school system to perform arts and crafts been prohibited from using colour? This question is silly, since there is no evidence that any child has been so “tasked.” In other discussions of the Plano issue, it has been pointed out that the PTA has requested white napkins because: - colored napkins stain when little kids spill things on them - white napkins can be re-used at later events without having inappropriate color schemes. (Note that the two letters identify the materials for two separate parties, one of them Valentine’s Day, and both seek white napkins and neither explicitly prohibits colored tableware.) It was the claim by a group of parents that red and green were prohibited based on an anti-religious bias, but this evidence puts the lie to their claim (unless you are going to pretend that the “banning” of pink napkins on Valentine’s Day was also an assault on religion). ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/13 "2006-02-18T17:43:18Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Yep–excellent OP, **Shayna** , and thanks for the research! Unless there are other letters out there (I believe **Bricker** claimed that the parents in the lawsuit received a personal letter from the principal [I got the spelling right this time]), I think this settles the issue. > > Daniel Well, if it means anything, my original request to the school was as follows (all emphasis as it appeared in my email): > [@](#): > > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:21 AM > To: ‘askpisd@pisd.edu’ > Subject: Document Request > To Whom It May Concern, > > Per the Open Records Act, I am writing to request a copy of a letter referred to in the case of _Morgan et al vs. The Plano Independent School District_. Specifically, I am interested in the correspondence referred to in the following paragraph of the complaint: > > 6.467. PISD has recently sent parents of PISD students **a letter** that for the > December 17, 2004 Party “contributions” be limited “to the approved > items listed below.” The restrictions specially refer to “white plates,” > “white paper napkins,” and “white ready to spread frosting.” (emphasis > added). Christmas colors red and green are banned from the party because > of their religious significance and because they symbolize the Christian > religion. The PISD restrictions prohibit gifts from being distributed > between students because gifts are not on the “approved” list. The > restrictions specifically refer to the PISD “policy on distribution of school > material and non school materials.” > > It can be sent to this email address, or can be faxed to (310) _ **-** _\*. > > Thank you very much, > Jill K\*\*\*\*\*\* And as far as I know, since that’s the only section of the complaint that **Bricker** referred to, and these are the letters the school sent in response to my request for letters referred to in that particular paragraph, I have to assume that these letters and the one **Bricker** was referring to are one (two) and the same. And thanks for the compliments, guys. 🙂 > [@Metacom](#): > > And on further review. the liturgical color for Christmas is white. Which was the color that the letter specifically asked parents to bring. > > I smell a Catholic conspiracy. Oh **Bricker** ought to _love_ that theory! 😃 > [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Oh please ! > > Since when did we start calling the Christmas break a “Winter break” > there is absolutely no cultural precedant for it and its introduction to replace previous term has to come from an agenda. So what is the agenda? > Could this be some white supremicist agenda? Oh please, indeed! Are you serious? Really? See? I knew there’d be _somebody_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/14 "2006-02-18T17:45:09Z")
I _think_ you were whooshed, **tom**. I would think **Flying Dutchman’s** equating the white napkins and plates to a white supremacist agenda might’ve tipped you off… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/15 "2006-02-18T17:52:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I _think_ you were whooshed, **tom**. I would think **Flying Dutchman’s** equating the white napkins and plates to a white supremacist agenda might’ve tipped you off… 😃 Oh, I didn’t think that he seriously implied a supremacist conspiracy; I just noted that all my nearby districts are run by whites and thought it would be fun to toy with the idea. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/16 "2006-02-18T17:56:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > one of them Valentine’s Day Sorry, I have been reading some other stuff on the topic, this morning and got confused. None of the information supplied to **Shayna** refers to Valentine’s day, so I retract any references to February 14 or pink. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/17 "2006-02-18T18:02:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Sorry, I have been reading some other stuff on the topic, this morning and got confused. None of the information supplied to **Shayna** refers to Valentine’s day, so I retract any references to February 14 or pink. Actually, it does. . . > [@Letter #2](#): > > If you do not have a checked item for this party, we will ask for a contribution for the Valentine party or the end of year party. However, that’s not proof positive that the list of “approved items” would be identical for either of those parties to the one for the Winter Party (though an assumption that it would, wouldn’t be out of line, given the “form letter” feel and similarity in both letters). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/18 "2006-02-18T20:13:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > “We” started calling the break that occurs at the end of December (when Winter begins) the “Winter Break” when sufficient non-Christian kids began entering the schools that a reference to the Christian feast of Christmas made no real sense to them. YMMV Interestingly enough, here in British Columbia with all our Asian immigrants and higher ratio of small l liberal minded citizens we still call it Christmas break at school. I confirmed that with my PTA wife and 23 year old daughter. We have a spring break that used to be called Easter break but that term fell into disuse when the big school break into the spring was no longer tied to Good Friday and Easter. Sometimes it falls into a completely separate week. On its own, this particular issue should be of little concern to Christians concerned about the direction of national culture. > [@](#): > > This question is silly, since there is no evidence that any child has been so “tasked.” Mea culpa ! I had great difficulty in reading the cited letters and conflated an impression I picked up somewhere else referring to crafts with what I managed to read off the bat which was the date of the first letter in the latter part of December. I apologize. As it stands right now for me, given what information I’ve gleaned so far I can’t see an issue at all here other than **Bricker** jumped the gun. Would that we all could be the subject of a Great Debate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/19 "2006-02-18T20:52:29Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > And as far as I know, since that’s the only section of the complaint that **Bricker** referred to, and these are the letters the school sent in response to my request for letters referred to in that particular paragraph, I have to assume that these letters and the one **Bricker** was referring to are one (two) and the same. The only hesitation I have is that **Bricker** referred to some conversation between the principal and the plaintiffs, which he seemed to think was in writing; it was referred to by the plaintiffs in an interview with Gibson. I do not think that this letter exists (I think **Bricker** may have confused the existent letters with a purported oral conversation between plaintiffs and principal), but if it does, it might not have been covered by your FOIA request. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091/20 "2006-02-19T13:18:45Z")
Well, as I said in the other thread, I think the Plano letter will settle the issue one way or the other, and if it does not say what I understood it to say, then I’d have little choice but to withdraw Plano as an example. So consider it withdrawn And **Shayna** - despite what may have seemed rancorous exchanges in that thread, I hope you’ll accept my compliments as well – this kind of research is precisely in the spirit of the Straight Dope, just the kind of thing that Cecil Himself would do, and I for one am quite impressed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-plano-isd-did-not-ban-red-green-because-theyre-christmas-colors-discuss/345091.md?page=2)