# Resolved: "Racist!" is The White Man's "Nigger!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980 "2006-11-27T20:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/21 "2006-11-27T21:42:45Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] Except, during the 18th and 19th centuries it was also a label for American blacks, slave and free, nigger and similar appelations and were often NOT seen particularly perjorative. [/quote] Yeah but we are in the 21 century, bruh. And even during the times that “nigger” was used as shorthand for “person of Negroid persuasion”, it wasn’t exactly free of negative connotations. A “nigger” back in those days was not much better than a livestock animal; the word became embossed with the stain of dehumanization and was used to advance the ideology that put blacks in a different category from whites. So even when it wasn’t used as insult, its usage wasn’t exactly innocuous. > [@](#): > > Speaking dispassionately, niggers do exist. They’re just not exclusively of African descent, black or male. What makes someone a nigger? This is news to me. > [@](#): > > But isn’t possible some people are more creative with their invectives and can twist “racist” to be more of an insult? Might it not be perceived as a slur? Overweight isn’t insult per se, but “overweight bastard” is. Yeah, and? If you call a homophobic person gay, them’s be real fightin’ words. But that doesn’t mean “gay” is on par with “faggot”, now does it? Being called “overweight bastard” is much like being called a “black bitch”. People generally do not like it when their personal traits are attacked, especially when those traits carry a stigma. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/22 "2006-11-27T21:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Reflecting on the Michael Richards debacle: for those who have recently asserted that there is no racial epithet the equivalent to “nigger” among the select few slurs blacks fling at white people – and off the top of my head cracker, honky, peckerwood, ofay and white boy are essentially the only contenders rounding out the top five (mmmaybe “massa”, “pig”, “devil” and “Mr. Charlie” if I drew from antebellum times, the Vietnam era slang and the invectives of the Nation of Islam) Let’s not forget bloodclot, redneck, the man, and wet dog. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/23 "2006-11-27T21:49:04Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Not me, brother–can I call you brother?–I think it was some darkie who said that. But she was probably part White anyway. [/QUOTE] :: Just shakin’ my head. :: > [@Aholibah](#): > > What on earth does one say in response to that? If the conversation is recorded, don’t say anything. Just upload it to the internet and let the court of public opinion crush the utterer of the dreaded N-word for his thoughtless and hateful temerity. > [@MGibson](#): > > Some of us take it very seriously when you impugn our thoughts and beliefs. Actually I take that a lot more seriously then assaults upon my ethnic or racial makeup. Which is one of the reasons why the accusation of racist, especially if shouted at you in the presence of others, should give you pause. If you are racist, you’ve been outed; if you aren’t racist your thoughts and beliefs have been impugned and you now have to defend yourself against the accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/24 "2006-11-27T21:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] Maybe, if I ever said it was precisely equivalent. But I didn’t type that. I just said, “_Nigger_ is the worst thing you can call someone black. _Racist_ is the worst thing you can call someone white. The emotional hurt many whites feel by the accusation and insult of being called _racist_ is similar to what blacks feel being called \*nigger.” \* [/QUOTE] And again, I’m sorry to press this, but you’re wrong. it is not similar. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/25 "2006-11-27T21:52:11Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] **rjung.** Oftentimes, and to quote **John Mace:** :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] You mean you couldn’t craft a proper response? The notion that the term “racist” can only be applies to whites is itself racist, IMO. There’s certainly nothing preventing a Hispanic/Black/Asian/whatever-non-white person from being a racist, as well. In contrast, AFAIK you can’t effectively call a Hispanic/White/Asian/whatever-non-black person a “nigger”, since the whole point of the word is to demean blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/26 "2006-11-27T21:55:45Z")
**Askia** is definitely correct that “Racist” carries a lot of weight, but I don’t think it’s the same as “Nigger.” An analogy that I have heard, and which I think is more accurate, is that “Racist” now is what “Communist” was during the 50s. It’s a damning indictment of one’s character, and it casts the person in question as wholly inappropriate for any kind of leadership or responsiblity (which is why it’s relevant to politics, because accusations of racism always seem to be thrown around before elections.) And go to Snopes sometime and look at all the urban legends about various companies (Tommy Hilfiger, Timberland, Snapple, etc) being run by racists. “Nigger,” on the other hand, is a more visceral thing to say to someone. It’s not about what the person in question _believes_ or _practices,_ it’s about who he _is._ It’s about the identity he is locked into from birth. There are racists who were once not racist, and there are non-racists who were once racist. But once a nigger, always a nigger. This is why I see it as being a more emotionally weighty term. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/27 "2006-11-27T21:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Let’s not forget bloodclot, redneck, the man, and wet dog. [/QUOTE] I’ve always thought Bloodclot to be the Jamican version of “God Damned”, as in “My bloodclot amplifier stopped working” and that if anything it was a “curse” only in the eyes of Rasta’s who have a thing about menstration as being unclean. And wet dog? That’s a new one on me. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/28 "2006-11-27T22:05:05Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Yeah but we are in the 21 century, bruh. And even during the times that “nigger” was used as shorthand for “person of Negroid persuasion”, it wasn’t exactly free of negative connotations. A “nigger” back in those days was not much better than a livestock animal; the word became embossed with the stain of dehumanization and was used to advance the ideology that put blacks in a different category from whites. So even when it wasn’t used as insult, its usage wasn’t exactly innocuous. [/quote] Agreed. My point was if “nigger” can have a categorized yet not innocuous meaning, I think the emotional responses of people to being called racist proves its not innocuous and has hurtful negative connotations. > [@](#): > > What makes someone a nigger? This is news to me. Excluding the various black racial connotations, and to quote social humorist Richard Pryor, “Nigger is a word that is used to describe our own wretchedness.” > [@](#): > > Yeah, and? If you call a homophobic person gay, them’s be real fightin’ words. But that doesn’t mean “gay” is on par with “faggot”, now does it? People react to fighting words differently. What I find most ironic and funniest in all this is that while the domineering white culture has for decades shrugged off white slurs and epithets, it gets most bent out of shape over the accusation of what is essentially a label. Funny. > [@](#): > > Being called “overweight bastard” is much like being called a “black bitch”. People generally do not like it when their personal traits are attacked, especially when those traits carry a stigma. I think that’s why racist is so effective: it’s the stigma of being perceived as even possibly racist. It’s most damning when someone like Richards is irrefutably on tape saying “Nigger!” “Nigger!” “Nigger!” over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/29 "2006-11-27T22:06:26Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] And again, I’m sorry to press this, but you’re wrong. it is not similar. [/QUOTE] Suppose you tell me why the hurt isn’t similar, and we can discuss things from there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/30 "2006-11-27T22:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] “Nigger” is not anything except a name intended to debase someone. It fulfills no purpose except to communicate insult. There are no actual niggers. But racist people do exist. [/QUOTE] That’s just what I wanted to say. Chris Rock might disagree with the idea that there are no niggers, but then again, Richard Pryor would agree, and I think he wins. 😃 One is a commentary on a person’s attitudes and behavior, the other sometimes _purports_ to be a comment about behavior, but is really an indictment of a whole group of people. **Askia** is right about the reaction that the word inspires - but it’s not a universal insult. Only people who do not want to be perceived as racist would be bothered by it. Fewer people are open about their racism these days, but there are still those to whom the word is not insulting. I’ve heard people say things like “Call me a racist if you want, but [insert reason why black people are stupid].” How many black people feel that way about being called “nigger?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/31 "2006-11-27T22:10:55Z")
“Racist”, like \*\*YWTF \*\*said is about beliefs. You can wrongly label a person’s beliefs, and that’s why it would elicite a :rolleyes: from me. Can you “wrongly” lable a black person a nigger? Unless the black person wants to deny his blackness, no. Besides, “racist” does not have the history of being accompanied by violence. “Lynch the racist” sounds absurd, because we have no history of lynching racists. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/32 "2006-11-27T22:12:02Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] You mean you couldn’t craft a proper response? [/quote] Shee, yeah, right. > [@](#): > > The notion that the term “racist” can only be applies to whites is itself racist, IMO. There’s certainly nothing preventing a Hispanic/Black/Asian/whatever-non-white person from being a racist, as well. In contrast, AFAIK you can’t effectively call a Hispanic/White/Asian/whatever-non-black person a “nigger”, since the whole point of the word is to demean blacks. I observe that the accusation that Hispanic/Black/Asian/whatever-non-white person is racist simply doesn’t carry as much force, weight or damage as it does when flung at someone white. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/33 "2006-11-27T22:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] **Askia** is definitely correct that “Racist” carries a lot of weight, but I don’t think it’s the same as “Nigger.” An analogy that I have heard, and which I think is more accurate, is that “Racist” now is what “Communist” was during the 50s. It’s a damning indictment of one’s character, and it casts the person in question as wholly inappropriate for any kind of leadership or responsiblity (which is why it’s relevant to politics, because accusations of racism always seem to be thrown around before elections.) And go to Snopes sometime and look at all the urban legends about various companies (Tommy Hilfiger, Timberland, Snapple, etc) being run by racists. [/quote] I think this is a very good point. Racist/ Communist/ Rapist all share that in common. > [@](#): > > “Nigger,” on the other hand, is a more visceral thing to say to someone. It’s not about what the person in question _believes_ or _practices,_ it’s about who he _is._ It’s about the identity he is locked into from birth. There are racists who were once not racist, and there are non-racists who were once racist. But once a nigger, always a nigger. This is why I see it as being a more emotionally weighty term. That, and the fact that it’s such an ugly, vulgar word with so much history behind it. But Racist/Communist/Rapist accusations have the chilling effect of potentially smearing you with a label that cannot be shaken and dogging you the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/34 "2006-11-27T22:18:29Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] “Nigger,” on the other hand, is a more visceral thing to say to someone. It’s not about what the person in question _believes_ or _practices,_ it’s about who he _is._ It’s about the identity he is locked into from birth. There are racists who were once not racist, and there are non-racists who were once racist. But once a nigger, always a nigger. This is why I see it as being a more emotionally weighty term. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Even when we just compare emotional responses, I still disagree with the OP’s premise. I’ve been called racist on this board probably more times than most people in this thread, and it did absolutely nothing to do me emotionally. Not because I’m black, but because I know the charges against me have been inaccurate and therefore, completely meaningless. The people calling me racist might as well have been calling me a Republican or a vegetarian. I don’t know why it would be any different for a white person. Accuracy has nothing to do with nigger. “Nigger” is an affirmation of a whole belief system that made it okay to treat black folks like animals. Call me a nigger and you’re saying a \*whole lot \* more than just “ **ywtf** is a poopyhead!” There’s no comparing the two. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/35 "2006-11-27T22:23:31Z")
If I call a person a “racist”, they can get defensive. They can formulate a rational argument for why I’m wrong (you know…like citing how many black friends they have, etc.) They can even have witnesses testify about their love of other races, somewhat like how Michael Richards did in front of the media. If someone calls me a “nigger”, I can’t formulate an argument in an intellectual sense. I can’t bring in witnesses to testify on my behalf. It’s a conversation-stopper. “Nigger” is an insult based on _being_, not character. As **you with the face** said, there are real-live, flesh-and-blood, everyday racist people. There are no niggers\*. By equating the two, you’re basically saying that I can’t reasonably call anyone a racist. By equating the two, you give racist people an excuse to feel offended when someone calls them on their shit. I think a more apt analogy is “racist” and “race-baiter”. White people don’t like to be accused of racism, and black people don’t like to be accused of playing the race card. One can defend him/herself against both labels and still walk away respecting their opponent. How in the hell can you remain friends with someone who’s called you a “nigger”? People who think being called a “racist” is anywhere near close to being called a “nigger” really have had a blessed life. \ ***Askia** , your comment about niggers really bothers me, for the simple fact that “nigger” is essentially no different than the other racial slurs out there. You imply that there are white and black niggers… that “nigger” doesn’t just describe black people. Does this equal-opportunitiness also apply to “gook”? “Wop”? “Kike”? What about “chink” and “spic”? When did “nigger” suddenly become synomomous with “really bad person, irrespective of race”? I must have missed that memo. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/36 "2006-11-27T22:24:12Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] “Racist”, like \*\*YWTF \*\*said is about beliefs. You can wrongly label a person’s beliefs, and that’s why it would elicite a :rolleyes: from me. Can you “wrongly” lable a black person a nigger? Unless the black person wants to deny his blackness, no. Besides, “racist” does not have the history of being accompanied by violence. “Lynch the racist” sounds absurd, because we have no history of lynching racists. [/QUOTE] If I wrongly label your beliefs in a heated conversation between the two of us, it does very little damage to you. Your :rolleyes: reaction would be appropriate. But what if you work in the media and something about that exchange is seen as something untenable and gives credence to your accussor? What if that accusation becomes widely disseminated public knowledge? What is the resultant community outcry condemns you, taints your reputation? I wonder where that white guy who used the word “niggardly” in a conversation with those black officials in DC is working right now? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/37 "2006-11-27T22:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] Excluding the various black racial connotations, and to quote social humorist Richard Pryor, “Nigger is a word that is used to describe our own wretchedness.” [/QUOTE] And yet interestingly enough, Pryor stopped refering to people as niggers after his trip to Africa. I think he realized the self-hatred that was driving his usage of the slur and he didn’t want to further the cause of racists by using it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/38 "2006-11-27T22:25:30Z")
Folks, I hate to get everybody all stirred up and then leave… but I gotta go. I hope to get back online tomorrow. PEACE! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/39 "2006-11-27T22:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] If I wrongly label your beliefs in a heated conversation between the two of us, it does very little damage to you. Your :rolleyes: reaction would be appropriate. But what if you work in the media and something about that exchange is seen as something untenable and gives credence to your accussor? What if that accusation becomes widely disseminated public knowledge? What is the resultant community outcry condemns you, taints your reputation? [/QUOTE] That’s true, but then “pedophile” would be a better analogy. I’d rather have my name plastered over the news as a racist than a pedophile. That is, if those were my only choices. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/40 "2006-11-27T22:31:22Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] But what if you work in the media and something about that exchange is seen as something untenable and gives credence to your accussor? What if that accusation becomes widely disseminated public knowledge? What is the resultant community outcry condemns you, taints your reputation? [/quote] You can say the same thing about being labeled a anti-Semite or a pedophile. There’s no doubt that there is a stigma associated with being branded racist, but that’s a function of where are as a society. Not an indictment against the adjective itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980.md?page=3)