# Resolved: "Racist!" is The White Man's "Nigger!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980 "2006-11-27T20:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/41 "2006-11-27T23:02:34Z")
The quickest and most powerful thing a black person can do to racially insult me is call _themselves_ a nigger in front of me in a white tone of voice. It achieves much the same effect: it implies that the person has already written me off, as a white person, as irrevocably as a white person calling a black person a nigger has. Now, of course, sometimes they are using the word, (usually with a different pronunciation), as a generic salutation, but in at least 50% of the times it has been used by blacks in actual conversation around me it seems to have been used to make a racially insensitive comment. (And more than half the time that white people have used it, as well, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/42 "2006-11-27T23:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] Folks, I hate to get everybody all stirred up and then leave… but I gotta go. I hope to get back online tomorrow. PEACE! [/QUOTE] - whew \* good. I always get freaked out when they pull out the N-word. He keeps that up and we’ll lose the power of the word and have to come up with something else! ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/43 "2006-11-27T23:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] You can say the same thing about being labeled a anti-Semite or a pedophile. [/QUOTE] Anti-Semite maybe, although to my knowledge it doesn’t have the sting of either “nigger” or “racist”. Part of the problem with “racist,” though, is that there is no defense against it, as discussed in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397594&page=2) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7998475&postcount=41](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7998475&postcount=41) > [@dragonblink](#): > > But what can I say if someone accuses me of being prejudiced against someone because of their skin color? > > I can’t point to the fact that I hang out with people of many differing ethnicities, as this is the “some of my best friends are …” defense. I can’t prove my own thoughts or opinions. I could possibly point to my own non-white ancestry, but it is far enough back that I look completely white (whatever that means) so clearly I’m “passing” well enough. There is absolutely no way I can prove to someone that I haven’t done something for race-based reasons. > > It is also gut-wrenching for me, as a white person, to be accused of racism because often the accusation itself is for race-based reasons; because I am white, I am more likely to be suspected of prejudice against non-white people. Racism hurts no matter who throws it around. Not to mention which, in the professional and academic sphere, being accused of being racist is a pretty big mark against you. Witness, for example, the [water buffalo incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident), in which a fairly specious claim of racisim seriously damaged the career of a student. So there’s a practical as well as emotional aspect of being called “racist.” ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/44 "2006-11-28T00:00:58Z")
Anti-Semite maybe, although to my knowledge it doesn’t have the sting of either “nigger” or “racist”. Part of the problem with “racist,” though, is that there is no defense against it, as discussed in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397594&page=2) > [@dragonblink](#): > > But what can I say if someone accuses me of being prejudiced against someone because of their skin color? > > I can’t point to the fact that I hang out with people of many differing ethnicities, as this is the “some of my best friends are …” defense. I can’t prove my own thoughts or opinions. I could possibly point to my own non-white ancestry, but it is far enough back that I look completely white (whatever that means) so clearly I’m “passing” well enough. There is absolutely no way I can prove to someone that I haven’t done something for race-based reasons. > > It is also gut-wrenching for me, as a white person, to be accused of racism because often the accusation itself is for race-based reasons; because I am white, I am more likely to be suspected of prejudice against non-white people. Racism hurts no matter who throws it around. Not to mention which, in the professional and academic sphere, being accused of being racist is a pretty big mark against you. Witness, for example, the [water buffalo incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident), in which a fairly specious claim of racisim seriously damaged the career of a student. So there’s a practical as well as emotional aspect of being called “racist.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/45 "2006-11-28T00:18:28Z")
To me there is one thing different between being called a racist or a nigger. Many blacks generally don’t get too upset being called a nigger by other blacks but take severe offence when whites do. Many progressive whites get very upset by being called racist by other whites. They get less upset when blacks call them racist, perhaps because the progressive whites feel they must take some responsibility for their heritage and other non-progressive whites. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/46 "2006-11-28T00:18:45Z")
I don’t think anyone is going to get their ass kicked for callin someone a racist, nigger on the other hand might lead to some violent consequences. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/47 "2006-11-28T00:19:54Z")
calling\* ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/48 "2006-11-28T00:40:18Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Anti-Semite maybe, although to my knowledge it doesn’t have the sting of either “nigger” or “racist”. Part of the problem with “racist,” though, is that there is no defense against it, as discussed in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397594&page=2) [/quote] **Anastasaeon** certainly defended herself. She convinced all of the posters (including myself) that she’s not a racist. Do you know what “no defense” means? If someone calls you a “slanty-eyed gook”, what can you say to that besides “My eyes aren’t _that_ slanty?” > [@](#): > > Not to mention which, in the professional and academic sphere, being accused of being racist is a pretty big mark against you. Witness, for example, the [water buffalo incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident), in which a fairly specious claim of racisim seriously damaged the career of a student. So there’s a practical as well as emotional aspect of being called “racist.” So true. Just as being called a “pedophile” or a “tax cheat” are accusations that can also ruin a career. Does that mean we should refrain from calling people “pedophiles” and “tax cheats”? Only people who intend to inflame and insult would choose the word “nigger”. People may use “racist” to insult. Or they could be using it as an objective descriptor, one based soley on solid evidence. Equating a insult with a value-neutral descriptor makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/49 "2006-11-28T01:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Let’s not forget bloodclot, redneck, the man, and wet dog. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard of the others, but “bloodclot?” ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/50 "2006-11-28T02:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think for a white person to get a sense of what it’s like for black person to be called a “nigger”, he would have to wander into a neighborhood that was almost exclusively black, and have a few hostile acting men taunt him. Then, almost anything he was called, even just “whiteboy”, would be pretty darn scary. [/QUOTE] Well, not a black neighborhood, but a Christmas party. I was dating a woman from the Kumeyaay tribe (Southern California Native Americans), and was called “white boy” by every one of the adult males in attendance. This did not come across in any sort of good-natured way, either. “Hey, are you lost? I think the white Christmas party is down the street!” Said with a real edge. I’ve never been so uncomfortable in my life. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/51 "2006-11-28T02:50:19Z")
Did you try the joke: I’m Fukawee tribe. Wanna know how we got our name? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/52 "2006-11-28T02:56:44Z")
“Woman is the nigger of the world.” –John Lennon ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/53 "2006-11-28T03:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think for a white person to get a sense of what it’s like for black person to be called a “nigger”, he would have to wander into a neighborhood that was almost exclusively black, and have a few hostile acting men taunt him. Then, almost anything he was called, even just “whiteboy”, would be pretty darn scary. [/QUOTE] Concurrence manifests present postingly. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/54 "2006-11-28T04:47:08Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Let’s not forget bloodclot, redneck, the man, and wet dog. [/QUOTE] But what’s wrong with being The Man? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/55 "2006-11-28T04:48:51Z")
I’ve heard of the Irish being referred to as the world’s “white niggers” before. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/56 "2006-11-28T05:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Many blacks generally don’t get too upset being called a nigger by other blacks but take severe offence when whites do. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, I am so tired of hearing this claim. What is the basis for your assumption? I went to a majority Latino/Black high school. I belong to a historically Black fraternity. I am from a Black family. A good percentage of my friends are Black. I don’t know anyone in any of those groups who would just up and call another Black person “nigger.” Because a lot of Black people have a huge problem with that word. Have you ever heard a Black person say “Don’t call me out of my name?” That means you need to refer to me by my given name - not G, not playa, not homey, and definitely not nigger. Now, I do know people who refer to _other_ people like so: “That nigga was acting crazy.” But as someone who regularly interacts with Black people, poor, working class, and middle class, I just do not know of people who are okay with the word being used to describe them. And most Black people I interact with know better that to bust out with “nigger” with other Black people they _don’t_ know. Now, as a teacher, I certainly heard the kids use it among themselves, but I heard them also refer to Latino and White kids that way as well. In fact, I think it’s fair to say I’ve heard, or heard of, kids of every ethnicity referring to one another as “niggas.” I daresay if someone was going to spontaneously bust out with a nigger-blast, it would be among a group of young Black men closely affiliated with street culture. Tough guys. And even then you’re likely to piss someone off, unless you know them and there’s some kind of understanding that you can go there. Among groups like Christians, conscious Afrocentric people, older people, and women, I rarely hear the word being used. I just want it to be known that in my vast experience as being Black and being around Black people, a lot of Black people get quite upset at anyone calling them nigger - in fact, more upset if a Black person does it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/57 "2006-11-28T05:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Askia] If you are racist, you’ve been outed; if you aren’t racist your thoughts and beliefs have been impugned and you now have to defend yourself against the accusation. [/QUOTE] Sure, which is a great way to change the subject up for discussion. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/58 "2006-11-28T06:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] So true. Just as being called a “pedophile” or a “tax cheat” are accusations that can also ruin a career. Does that mean we should refrain from calling people “pedophiles” and “tax cheats”? [/QUOTE] Yes, if the accusations are false. And even there, there’s a difference – if you claim that someone is a tax cheat, it’s fairly simple to prove whether it’s true or not. It’s also difficult to falsely claim that someone is a pedophile, since you have to find children who are willing to lie to back up the claim (though that’s not impossible, ie the McMartin case). But it’s very easy to claim that a person is a racist. So much of the racism we talk about today is of the unproveable variety anyways (looks, attitudes, inferences), that if a black person wanted to hurt a white person, he could very easily start accusing him of racism, with no proof at all. If he did it loudly enough the charge might stick, and a perfectly innocent person could have no way to exonerate himself in the eyes of friends and colleagues. As has been pointed out, that can have serious consequences on people’s lives and careers. It is, as has also been pointed out, the modern equivalent of accusing someone of being a Communist. So, I think **Askia** has made an interesting comparison here. Baseless accusations of racism against a white person are more damaging externally (in the sense that it could lose you jobs and friends), but not necessarily internally (because you know the accusations are false). Calling someone a nigger is more damaging internally (your very being has been criticized), but not externally (everyone is going to run to your defense and condemn the person who called you nigger). ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/59 "2006-11-28T06:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=Inigo Montoya] Yeah, we honkey mo-fo’s pretty much don’t allow people too much heat for racial epithets. I mean really, can you call us anything truly and unjustly derogatory considering the large scale evils we’ve perped on the world? Not really. Pretty much all of us are descended from civilizations owning well-documented atrocities, and yet, being human, we need to look to something for a heritage/cultural foundation. And, being White folks (hipocrytes by nature), we conveniently accept some parts of that heritage (the good and shiny stuff) and not the rest. Guy may be English and bloody proud of the empire, but he didn’t have anything personally to do with handing out smallpox blankets to The Red Man. The good & bad are tied to one another–you can’t sport a swastika armband in celebration of strength through unity without accepting the fact that the same success came at a hell of a price to someone else. So yes, if you please, try not to shatter our illusions of well-intentioned heritage, lest we remind you of what you once were to many of us, and still are, by rights, to some. [/QUOTE] Am I being whooshed here? White people are hypocrites by nature? Only white people (as you seem to imply) are descended from cultures that have committed atrocities? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980/60 "2006-11-28T07:36:05Z")
A good point. Pretty much every culture, regardless of their color, takes a hypocritical view of its past. Modern black Africans, for example, never talk about how much their black African ancestors participated in the slave trade. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-racist-is-the-white-mans-nigger/381980.md?page=4)