# Resolved: Should we bring back Banishment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694 "2008-04-09T23:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/21 "2008-04-10T23:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] Well, yes, but if the visits would have consisted just of sitting down with a glass screen in between and talking through a telephone, then modern media (Skype, videophones) make that just as easily possible. Conjugal visits are another matter. [/QUOTE] This sounds fair. Presuming that we’re just talking about placing modern prison facilities in cheaper countries like we do with our factories and stuff, I would think that the real problem would be assuring that your developing nation’s ‘Prisons R Us’ industry doesn’t boster its profits by reducing the conditions of the inprisonment. Since if that’s where the money is made, we might as well just get inhumane ourselves and save the airfare. But the business about placing them with wandering tribes of Bedouins, now, that’s just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/22 "2008-04-10T23:55:48Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] There’s the darn old Constitution in the way. Cruel and unusual punishments are prohibited. [/QUOTE] Without debating “cruel”; at the time of the Constitution’s writing would transportation of criminals have been considered “unusual”? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/23 "2008-04-11T00:45:10Z")
A few years back, there was some talk in Arizona about building a jail in Mexico. I don’t think it went anywhere. One objection was that it would be more difficult to monitor the situation to make sure that prisoners were being treated at minimum American standards. Another objection, not as loudly stated, but possibly more influential, is that civil service unions don’t want the corrections budget being spent out of state. Here’s a more modest proposal: Why can’t New Jersey set up a Motor Vehicles office in Manhattan? ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/24 "2008-04-11T04:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] No, I’m thinking this plan is the regular kind of crazy. [/quote] That’s what they said about landing on the moon! It is natural for us to feel aversion to new unsettling, paradigm-shifting ideas but crazier things were achieved, yes? > [@](#): > > There’s the darn old Constitution in the way. Cruel and unusual punishments are prohibited. I’d say that telling some guy that got caught embezzling that he’s going to be imprisoned for a year but we’re going to make him serve that year in the middle of the Sahara Desert would qualify. What’s wrong with the desert? He’ll get a nice tan and sweat for a while, he can have a hat and suncream, a nice tent to sleep under at night, eat delicious organic mutton, fresh baked bread, black olives, goat cheese, fresh fruits and vegetables, tepid water, etc. He can keep busy cooking or doing bedouin things and serving as an ambassador of the U.S, perhaps teaching his hosts some english and promoting understand of american culture through his stories and his actions. Instead of giving up on a man, you give him a second chance, a mission in life to TRULY repay his debt to his country for his crimes. You give a man honor instead of marking him as a felon for life. Surely, that’s not as cruel as locking someone up with potential man-rapers\*? As to the possibility of getting skin cancer later on, the same would apply if he spent that time on a beach in Hawaii so I really don’t think it’s a big deal. Indeed, prison can’t be good for one’s immune system anyways. Furthermore, this doesn’t need to be a one-way thing. I’ll admit that some would not view the U.S “dumping” its riff-raff on the rest of the world with kind eyes, even if the deal is welcomed. Well, not a problem. let other countries have the ability to do the same, send us their prisoners for money. Our prisons could compete in different ways (nicer accomodations and privileges? Maximum security and no luxuries? etc.) So could compete the jails or resorts of all countries. Each county/state/country could decide what kind of facilities to use, traditional or not, local or not. Some will gives choices to the prisoners, some won’t. Just like today. Prisons could then compete to have the least amount of escapes, lowest deaths, best health, best reformation rates and compete on prices as well. All prisoners sent to the U.S would be assured a treatment we, as a society, deem just. It would be sort of like having student exchange programs only with cons instead of students and prisons instead of schools. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/25 "2008-04-11T05:27:21Z")
Rather than insisting that other countries house America’s criminals in their jails, what about simply making banishment the entirety of the punishment? For some pre-determined period of time (possibly for life), the US is off limits. Because most other countries are just as picky about visas and entry permits as the US is, this would most likely only be useful in cases where the punishee has already banished themselves, such as [Sgt. Jenkins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins), or military deserters who fled to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/26 "2008-04-11T07:17:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] Rather than insisting that other countries house America’s criminals in their jails, what about simply making banishment the entirety of the punishment? For some pre-determined period of time (possibly for life), the US is off limits. [/QUOTE] That’s a crazy idea. Rich people would be affected much less by exile than the poor, making justice a farce. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/27 "2008-04-11T07:28:33Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’d be really suprised if exile didn’t become a common punishment again once interplanetary colonization becomes feasible. -FrL- [/QUOTE] I think there are some people who ought to be exiled into space right now, interplanetary colonization or not. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/28 "2008-04-11T07:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Another objection, not as loudly stated, but possibly more influential, is that civil service unions don’t want the corrections budget being spent out of state. I suppose I’m in the minority here, but I favor a 25 year minimum, mandatory, for anyone convicted of a serious felony using a deadly weapon. Here in Cali, prison costs make that too expensive. Outsource the prisons to Honduras or Guyana. Do it cheaper. Keep everyone in prison who ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/29 "2008-04-11T08:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=Gozu] That’s a crazy idea. Rich people would be affected much less by exile than the poor, making justice a farce. [/QUOTE] I think it would be most applicable in cases where living as a lifetime fugitive overseas is out of proportion with the severity of the crime. In the case of a Vietnam-era draft avoider who’s been a productive member of society in Canada ever since, for example, 5 years of not being allowed back in the US might be a more reasonable punishment than a year in prison. The main benefit is as a face-saving option when government A wants to punish someone, but government B doesn’t want to hand them over. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/30 "2008-04-12T01:04:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] I think it would be most applicable in cases where living as a lifetime fugitive overseas is out of proportion with the severity of the crime. In the case of a Vietnam-era draft avoider who’s been a productive member of society in Canada ever since, for example, 5 years of not being allowed back in the US might be a more reasonable punishment than a year in prison. The main benefit is as a face-saving option when government A wants to punish someone, but government B doesn’t want to hand them over. [/QUOTE] Not a bad idea but such crimes are rare and the impact would be small. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/31 "2008-04-12T01:43:34Z")
Cuba tried it in 1980. Seemed to work well for them. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/32 "2008-04-12T12:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=Belowjob2.0] I suppose I’m in the minority here, but I favor a 25 year minimum, mandatory, for anyone convicted of a serious felony using a deadly weapon. Here in Cali, prison costs make that too expensive. Outsource the prisons to Honduras or Guyana. Do it cheaper. Keep everyone in prison who ought to be. [/QUOTE] Guyana. Good point. I think Guyana, or maybe it’s Honduras, has a former prison facility we could pick up on the cheap. Place called Devil’s Island. Seriously, unless we have some sort of provision to the effect of, “You don’t get paid in full until the prisoner is returned, reasonably healthy and sane.” Otherwise in most Third World countries they’ll just throw our guys in a hole and toss a handful or rice and a bowl of water in once a day, if that often, and not do anything more with them until it’s time to ship them back. In other words, unless we have some sort of health provision, exile to the Third World would be a death sentence. And if we are going to kill people, let’s do it honestly. BTW, ISTM the legal groundwork for Gozu’s crazy plan is already laid. “Extraordinary rendition” anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/33 "2008-04-12T12:45:20Z")
We would also have US inspectors on site. The 3rd world countries would have an incentive to maintain standards. They wouldn’t want to lose the jobs and the ancillary economic benefits. The US could make treaties for control of the territories where the prisons are located similar to what’s done for overseas military bases. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/34 "2008-04-12T12:46:05Z")
I think it’s insane that nobody has yet mentioned “Why don’t we decrease our prison burden by not incarcerating 1% of our population for bullshit minor offenses?” ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/35 "2008-04-12T12:50:34Z")
Are you talking specifically about drug decriminalization? Prostitution? I’m for decriminalization, sure. I’m interested in punishing violent crime. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/36 "2008-04-14T13:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] Cuba tried it in 1980. Seemed to work well for them. [/QUOTE] It actually worked a lot better for the banished. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/37 "2008-04-14T13:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Gozu] Brainglutton: But it worked out so well in Australia! [/QUOTE] Tell that to the Aborigines. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/38 "2008-04-15T02:09:35Z")
[QUOTE=lalenin] It actually worked a lot better for the banished. [/QUOTE] See? Banishment can be a win-win situation. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694/39 "2008-04-15T03:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] See? Banishment can be a win-win situation. 😃 [/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-should-we-bring-back-banishment/444694.md?page=1)