# Resolved, that using "karen" as a pejorative is off limits **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430 "2023-07-23T21:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/21 "2023-07-24T01:16:12Z")
When Aaron Rodgers (NFL quarterback who has been in the news for various disputes and controversies) was called “Karen Rodgers”, it had nothing to do with gender. There was no implication that he was acting like a woman. It was understood that he was accused of being self-important and seeking conflict to get what he wanted. I do think that it’s a term that can be used as a gendered insult, and we already have a moratorium on misogyny. So if it’s used that way I don’t have any issue with moderation. But I don’t think it’s automatic, and since this forum doesn’t have a “banned words” list, I don’t see why we need to start now. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/22 "2023-07-24T01:18:06Z")
Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/23 "2023-07-24T01:29:42Z")
While I don’t think it should be banned, I think it’s played out. It’s lost whatever effectiveness it once possessed. It’s cliché, and at this point it’s unoriginal. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/24 "2023-07-24T01:34:31Z")
Correct ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/25 "2023-07-24T01:41:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > More or less it is taking the place of “bitch” as used as a pejorative towards women only. > > No one denies it is a pejorative. No one denies it is used only against women. Less than more. I deny the term is used only against women as stated, and the first thread makes this clear. It is not highly denigrating against women nor tribes sharing the same name if they are behaving reasonably. In my opinion, the proposed comparison is wrong. Nor is the comparative offered a banned word nor unlawful. I’m not going to contribute further to this thread. It just is not personally important to me. I will follow the rules if a large group of people agree with this contention, which seems to me weak. I am troubled the suggestion “Florida Man” is also sexist, and furthermore may fail to accommodate gender diversity, may show geographic insensitivity, may perpetuate stereotypes of a specific subset of behaviour despite most men from Florida being innocent of such behaviour, and on a subconscious level may trigger readers thinking of “America’s Wang” when no such association was authorized. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/26 "2023-07-24T02:09:43Z")
Short version: I categorically reject all aspects of the OP’s misguided ideas. Long version: > [@DrDeth](#): > > We have a new thread where the term “karen” used as a pejorative is the topic. Several posters, including myself have said that he term is hurtful, bigoted and sexist. What arrant garbage. It’s meant to be hurtful. It’s aimed at jerks and serves to call those jerks jerks. Because we all know that _one_ meaning of the word “Karen” is that sort of jerk. No insult is applied to any other use of the term Karen, whether that’s the ethnic group or women or girls given that name. It also doesn’t apply to hurricanes named “Karen” which occur every few years. I don’t see how it’s bigoted since it can be, and is, applied to every possible ethnic group under the Sun. Unless what you mean is we should all be welcoming to self-entitled jerks. You know, Karens. Karen might, maybe, be sexist. But there are plenty of male Karens out there. Who are routinely called out for their Karenic behavior. About whom there is less agreement what their unofficial sterotypical type-name is. Several equivalent names are in use including, in some lexicons, “male Karen”. In no sense is it meant to say anything about sex/gender, etc. It’s a reference to jerkishness. Period. > [@DrDeth](#): > > More or less it is taking the place of “bitch” as used as a pejorative towards women only. > > No one denies it is a pejorative. No one denies it is used only against women. > > It has the added nastiness that it is hurtful towards women who are named “karen”. > > The casual use of this term should be against the rules just as “bitch” is (in most contexts). At least around here it is in no sense replacing “bitch”. It is not a general pejorative about women nor is it applied exclusively to women. Your assertions are not factual. I see nothing here but manufactured outrage in pursuit of I’m not sure what. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/27 "2023-07-24T02:21:09Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > anyone who titles a thread ‘Resolved’ should have their thread taken less seriously. I was going to say “Hey!”, since I have a thread in Great Debates that starts with that word. But since it’s just me bullshitting…I second your proposal. And words shouldn’t be banned. At the very least, in the Pit you should still be able to call somebody a ‘ren. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/28 "2023-07-24T02:47:06Z")
^^^ THIS. “Prima _donna_” has got to go, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/29 "2023-07-24T02:59:02Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > “Prima _donna_” has got to go, though. Aw, it’s such a great descriptor for a certain type of egotistical top-billing, center-of-the-universe, entitled personality. How about if we agree to use the male equivalent term primo uomo too? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/30 "2023-07-24T03:01:01Z")
No, I have a good friend named Uomo. He would take offense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/31 "2023-07-24T03:15:49Z")
No uomo, no woe. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/32 "2023-07-24T03:39:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > When Aaron Rodgers (NFL quarterback who has been in the news for various disputes and controversies) was called “Karen Rodgers”, it had nothing to do with gender. Oh, that’s very wrong. There are tons of memes like this that went with that name…there was definitely a gender implication with it. [https://twitter.com/ryan\_humphries/status/1501235015719473154?s=61&t=7zPHcBzjb1UW-wh6DrDc3g](https://twitter.com/ryan_humphries/status/1501235015719473154?s=61&t=7zPHcBzjb1UW-wh6DrDc3g) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/33 "2023-07-24T03:43:02Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Oh, that’s very wrong. No it’s not. The fact that _some_ people turned it into a gendered insult doesn’t mean everyone did. As I said, if and when it’s used in such a manner, we already have a rule against misogyny, and the moderators can judge if that usage goes against the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/34 "2023-07-24T03:44:50Z")
You just went from “it had nothing to do with gender” to “not every single one of them had something to do with gender”, but sure. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/35 "2023-07-24T03:49:19Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > You just went from “it had nothing to do with gender” to “not every single one of them had something to do with gender”, I’m referring to this board, of course, because this is ATMB, not the MPSIMS thread. > [@NFL 2021: Divisional Round / Week Twenty Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-divisional-round-week-twenty-questions/958202/54): > > Bye bye, Titans! Bye bye, Karen Rodgers! Oh frabjous day! > [@Aaron Rodgers and vaccines](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aaron-rodgers-and-vaccines/953976/85): > > (Re: Qaaron Rodgers). I laughed. Politics aside, misinformation is misinformation. > [@NFL 2021: Divisional Round / Week Twenty Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nfl-2021-divisional-round-week-twenty-questions/958202/50): > > Not a big NFL guy, just wanted to pop in here and say I’m thrilled Qaaron Rodgers lost his shot. Tell me those posts are gendered insults. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/36 "2023-07-24T03:51:23Z")
Oh, it wasn’t clear that you meant the board only. Well, I can’t read their minds, but I do know that out in the public it very much has a gendered meaning, and if you’re able to separate that from what you see on the board that’s great for you. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/37 "2023-07-24T03:53:50Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Well, I can’t read their minds, but I do know that out in the public it very much has a gendered meaning, and if you’re able to separate that from what you see on the board that’s great for you. Note that the premise of this thread is that all usage of “Karen” as a pejorative is an insult against women, and should be treated as such. Showing usage of the term as a non-gendered insult invalidates that claim. I don’t think anyone disputes that it can and has been used as a gendered insult, and _hopefully_ nobody objects to moderation when it is used that way here. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/38 "2023-07-24T04:09:28Z")
> [@Digger11](#): > > [Urban Dictionary: Male Karen](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Male%20Karen) What the hell does “ease drop” mean, I wonder. And where do they spell the word as “taddletale?” I guess the Urban Dictionary allows anyone who wants to to post completely unedited. Maybe not the best source for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/39 "2023-07-24T04:52:43Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Note that the premise of this thread is that all usage of “Karen” as a pejorative is an insult against women, and should be treated as such. What if we reformulated that? Along the lines of: All use of ‘Karen’ in this sense we’ve been discussing is pejorative. On-purpose pejorative, that’s the intention behind the term. It happens to be a name associated with female people. It was the idea of a woman who behaved a certain way. That’s not the same as saying the purpose behind ever use of “Karen” is to insult women. But you see how it’s history and origins are as a gendered term? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/40 "2023-07-24T05:05:15Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > But you see how it’s history and origins are as a gendered term? We’re not talking about a term that has existed for many years as a form of oppression; it’s a neologism. It’s a fairly new meme that’s evolving. That’s why defining it is difficult. I don’t think its “history and origins” are at all relevant here. It hasn’t really had time for that to matter. What should matter is its usage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430.md?page=3)