# Resolved, that using "karen" as a pejorative is off limits **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 23, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430 "2023-07-23T21:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/81 "2023-07-24T21:15:22Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Other than your declaration, why is that? Because this isn’t about free speach, it’s about defining speach that’s against this site’s standards. You’re free to use “Karen” all you want, but you may or may not be able to use it here. There are several terms not allowed here, this is part of already established custom. Personally, I have no problems using the term. I don’t think, at its heart it is gender based. It’s attitudinally based. But if the board decided that it wasn’t OK to use it here I would abide by the rules. It’s the same reason I don’t use words like “gyp” any more, having been educated. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/82 "2023-07-24T21:15:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, if we don’t use the term “Karen” for this type of person, what’s a better alternative? How about “Chronos”? Works for me. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/83 "2023-07-24T21:20:00Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > So, if we don’t use the term “Karen” for this type of person, what’s a better alternative? > > How about “Chronos”? Works for me. 😆 - Maybe not now but it’s time will come. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/84 "2023-07-24T21:22:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Note that the premise of this thread is that all usage of “Karen” as a pejorative is an insult against women, and should be treated as such. Showing usage of the term as a non-gendered insult invalidates that claim. I don’t think anyone disputes that it can and has been used as a gendered insult, and _hopefully_ nobody objects to moderation when it is used that way here. I think a lot of the attributes that have been associated with “ Karen” apply equally well to Marjorie Taylor Greene. Would it be okay instead to call someone a Marjorie if they’re behaving like self-entitled b\*tch? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/85 "2023-07-24T22:24:41Z")
Leather can be made from the skin of animals slaughtered for their meat, fur seldom comes from animals that are good eating. (This post does not condone, excuse or otherwise support eating meat: i just want to point out the difference in degree between leaving only the “moo” or a skinned carcass) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/86 "2023-07-24T22:26:01Z")
I’m taking this from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)), but it’s a summary of what I found on other sites. > In African-American culture, there is a history of calling difficult white women or those who “weaponize” their position by a generic pejorative name. In the antebellum era (1815–1861), “Miss Ann” was used. In the early 1990s, “Becky” was used. As late as 2018, before the use of “Karen” caught on, alliterative names matching particular incidents were used, such as “Barbecue Becky”, “Cornerstore Caroline”, and “Permit Patty”. Linguist Kendra Calhoun connects “Karen” stereotypes to the older “soccer mom”. … > > A more pointed explanation, which involves race, is the expression originating among black people to refer to unreasonable white women. The term was popularized on Black Twitter as a meme used to describe white women who “tattle on black kids’ lemonade stands” or who unleash the “violent history of white womanhood”. Now defunct Bitch magazine described Karen as a term that originated with black women but was co-opted by white men. … > > The term is generally used to refer to women, but The Atlantic noted that “a man can easily be called a Karen”, with staff writer David A. Graham calling then-president Donald Trump the “Karen in chief”. Similarly, in November 2020, a tweet calling Elon Musk “Space Karen” over comments he made regarding the effectiveness of COVID-19 testing became viral. Numerous names for a male equivalent of Karen have been floated, with little agreement on a single name, although ‘Ken’ and ‘Kevin’ are among the most common names used. The Jim Crow era male equivalent to Miss Ann was Mister Charlie. IOW, the term was originally meant to be both racist and sexist, just as “Becky” was, although not in the way American culture usually defines those terms. When white culture landed on the term to describe a wider version of the behavior, it became deracinated, so it’s used on black women, and desexed, therefore available for application to men as well. That’s pretty funny, considered that it’s opposite to the way pejoratives usually form. I’ve never used “Karen” but the objections to it are weak. Our culture - and I assume everybody’s - regularly turns names into descriptors. _Sex in the City_ launched a million “She’s such a Samantha” memes. Dick has already been mentioned, as has Chad. Since the word is used only for people who earn the term by their behavior, Karens are not a protected class. I also think that uses of the term are diminishing, so we’re probably two years too late on taking a stand. Let it be forgotten the way a zillion previous fad terms have been forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/87 "2023-07-24T22:54:43Z")
…so you claim. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/88 "2023-07-24T23:55:58Z")
Allegedly. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/89 "2023-07-25T00:04:44Z")
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m not saying you’re right either. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/90 "2023-07-25T02:32:19Z")
To answer a meme with a meme. ![](https://media.tenor.com/FpmmrItU7b4AAAAd/stripes-francis-francis.gif) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/91 "2023-07-25T04:18:20Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I think it’s played out. It’s lost whatever effectiveness it once possessed. It’s cliché, and at this point it’s unoriginal. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I groan every time I hear that pejorative used because it makes the user look like they think they’re being clever by using some hip code It’s dumb. People who use it thinking it is clever should be made fun of for their idiocy and hit with a rubber chicken. Sexist? Yeah a bit. The Rodgers bit supports such as it is calling him a weak assed bitch. Racist? I don’t think so even though race based. Banning it though? Agreed no. Just mocked. ---
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/92 "2023-07-25T04:57:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In any case, employment is not what we are talking about. Certain terms and words here are discouraged, as that is how we want THIS boards environment to be. > > I am suggesting we add the casual use of “karen” as a pejorative. Give it a rest. Plenty of people have explained to you just how stupid you are. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/93 "2023-07-25T06:29:51Z")
I’m not sure I know any Karensm good or bad. I will say it barely registers on this board unless it’s related to an article that is linked to. However, I do second using **Chronos** as an alternate term. Now we just need a couple more people to back the idea. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/94 "2023-07-25T06:37:22Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > However, I do second using **Chronos** as an alternate term. Now we just need a couple more people to back the idea. 🙂 God bless you, Mordecai! 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/95 "2023-07-25T06:37:22Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > IOW, the term was originally meant to be both racist and sexist No, it was not either of those things. It was descriptive. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/96 "2023-07-25T06:46:53Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Who said they were harmless? Mick is obviously a racial slur. Can’t be too much of a racial slur in the US. I’ve known two Micks in my time, both stereotypical Irish with red hair and freckles and obvious Irish derived names. Other than movies, I don’t think I’ve ever heard Mick as an insult to Irish people. Depends who you are speaking too I would guess. > [@Biffster](#): > > God bless you, Mordecai! 🕶 We just need a couple more to jump on the bandwagon and Karen will be history on the board. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/97 "2023-07-25T08:11:00Z")
Bye Felicia! ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/98 "2023-07-25T08:25:29Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Digger11](#): > > Plenty of people have explained to you just how stupid you are. This is an official warning for personal insults outside of the Pit. Treat other users with respect in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/99 "2023-07-25T08:34:05Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > this thread is essentially trolling Feel free to question the validity of the claims being claimed, but not the validity of the claimant making the claims being claimed. However, accusations of trolling are only permitted in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430/100 "2023-07-25T09:04:10Z")
Should we be bothered by the word manhandle, too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-that-using-karen-as-a-pejorative-is-off-limits/987430.md?page=6)