# Resolved: The United States should significantly reduce the number and severity of laws against recreational drugs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360 "2020-09-11T17:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/41 "2020-09-25T00:37:20Z")
Her boyfriend testified that she yelled “who is it” repeatedly and they didn’t respond. It would just be a “your word against mine” and you wouldn’t be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt because for some odd reason there is no bodycam evidence. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/42 "2020-09-25T00:46:30Z")
I read something long ago…the idea was that if the Feds produced and distributed the drugs they would cost little and addicts wouldn’t have to rob to get their fix. Plus the purity would be better and they wouldn’t be cut with other things, so the drugs would be safer. > **[What is Heroin Cut With? Mixing Agents, Substitutes & Adulterants](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/heroin-treatment/cut-with)** > > Heroin is cut with a list of substances to either increase its volume or to mimic and/or enhance the effects of the drug, some of which are harmful. We could phase out old junkies as time goes by, educate the next generation in the meanwhile, and so on. A profit motive has since entered the building. All states are happy to find a new source of revenue. Legalizing drugs adds revenue. Tax the vice and put the money into the public coffers. (Wait, weren’t lotteries were supposed to save schools?) It’s an old song. “Shame on you for drinking and smoking, so we’ll tax the fuck out of you for it but please don’t stop drinking and smoking because we need the revenue.” You’ll have a helluva time getting this toothpaste back in the tube. Remember krokodil? I hope the photos I’ve seen are faked but I doubt that they are. That said, would you sell it to someone because it’s their (addle-brained) choice? > **[Krokodil](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/krokodil/)** > > Can a drug concoction known as krokodil rot the skin of users who inject it? [Not for the squeamish…have brain bleach handy.](https://www.google.com/search?q=krokodil+damage&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjEmdf0iIPsAhUTzqwKHemTBz0Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=krokodil+damage&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAA6CAgAELEDEIMBOggIABCxAxDHAzoGCAAQCBAeOgQIABAeUIfiEVim8RFgvPIRaABwAHgAgAFKiAGdA5IBATeYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=YTxtX4TlGpOcswXpp57oAw&bih=608&biw=1366&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/43 "2020-09-25T01:02:12Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Plus the purity would be better and they wouldn’t be cut with other things, so the drugs would be safer. > [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Remember krokodil? I hope the photos I’ve seen are faked but I doubt that they are. That said, would you sell it to someone because it’s their (addle-brained) choice? But both Wikipedia and Snopes are vague on if it is the adulterants/unreacted reactants that are causing the disfigurement and not the actual chemical. If the former, then legalizing it would result in an increase in purity that would vastly reduce or eliminate these sorts of outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/44 "2020-09-25T01:16:04Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > But both Wikipedia and Snopes are vague on if it is the adulterants/unreacted reactants that are causing the disfigurement and not the actual chemical. If the former, then legalizing it would result in an increase in purity that would vastly reduce or eliminate these sorts of outcomes. Fair enough…just trying to point out that at some point legalizing **all** drugs trips a logic circuit. All? That will mean eventually selling something that you know has horrific effects. Kill you? That sucks. Exposed bones and flesh etc. with the lingering agony that must accompany it? That’s another thing. Let’s take the case of something anybody can buy off the shelf. This woman got frostbite from huffing Ultra Duster. Yeah, I know it’s 5 years old but I can’t keep up with the latest. > **[ULTRA DUSTED: Woman Huffing Canned Air Arrested](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/woman-accused-of-huffing-canned-air-at-big-box-store_n_55e5d01ae4b0c818f6193149?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJNe4qA2IMySxeIcFab7wze1Meoh-H6IMCOr2RXYZz-d9tEHRyAz9gtLRJCgH0mwv5RrC_PmVErwC3vlPnhpkIrVpGWHZ5zfL94SYol6U-QWQ7e1Wqm2jY7gA3eRRRW5m7kyl3l0G-1FPtvWSJwBcwZ6ri2nhY6z2DVqoWhAk7PY)** > > Experts say huffing canned air can cause instant frostbite. Who knows what’s next? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/45 "2020-09-25T09:08:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So they announce, then smash (they smash in so fast after yelling Police !, that it is to be understood why nobody in the house heard the announcement) , one of them is shot, so they fire back. Taylor is killed. What exactly would the charges be against the cops? One cop is being charged with wanton endangerment oas his bullets went into another apt, but what would they charge the cop who killed Taylor with? He was shot at, he returned fire. It is a tragedy , not a murder. I have a lot of friends who have guns and would not hesitate to open fire on anyone breaking down their front door. (One of them actually HAS shot someone trying to break in.) Combine that American attitude of self-defense with no-knock warrants and a case like Breona Taylor’s is inevitable. Here’s an idea - how about on no-knock warrants cops use the same type of ammunition as Air Marshalls do, which is _less likely to penetrate walls_ and endanger others outside of the immediate fire fight? (Better yet, fewer fire fights but meanwhile, let’s reduce the damage). Said ammo will still stop a human being, but makes it a lot less likely to kill someone _sleeping in a nearby room_ or neighbors nearby. Breona was ASLEEP IN HER BED. She was not posing a threat to anyone. By not even charging the cops for that, but charging for endangering the neighbors, it gives an image of the authorities not giving a damn about killing a black woman asleep in her bed. That image can be just as important as all the other details of the case. It starts to look like a drive-by shooting where the target is still alive but bystanders are dead, only this time it’s the cops and not gang members shooting. Context matters. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/46 "2020-09-25T10:43:33Z")
See this helpful explanation by LSLGuy: > [@Looking for a word or phrase for this posting style](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/looking-for-a-word-or-phrase-for-this-posting-style/920592/28): > > In formal debate, the topic to be debated is always introduced as “RESOLVED: \”. It’s meant as a clear statement of what one side is required to prove and the other is required to disprove. But for the rest of us who’ve never been on a formal debate team it reads as you thought: an arrogant statement that the controversy is already settled before it even begins. That’s the exact opposite of the technical meaning. We’ve had more than one thread debating the wisdo… I too was confused by this until I saw the above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/47 "2020-09-25T17:31:45Z")
By no means do I blame the guy inside for firing at the cops. “Bre” was holding like $10000 for her drug dealer Ex, and you’d expect bad guys not cops. Sure she was, but she wasnt targeted , she was the victim of stray gunfire. But yes, the air marshal ammo idea is a worthy one, in apartments, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/48 "2020-09-26T14:58:33Z")
I would like marijuana to be legal for recreational use in all states and federally. And readily available for anyone over 18, especially in edible form (not damaging to the lungs). Encouraging some people to turn to pot instead of alcohol could be a nice side benefit. Use of all other recreational drugs should be decriminalized, but not available without a prescription. Example: if people could go to their local dispensary and buy bottles of fentanyl, ketamine and flasks of Bromtons Cocktail for their next shindig, you’re going to see a lot more OD and death. Although use of drugs may be either legal or decriminalized, I think the penalties for having any recreational drug in your system after committing a crime (like vehicular homicide) should as severe, or more severe than they are now. This still accomplishes the OP‘s goal because police would only be permitted to look for or test for drugs after another crime has been committed. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/49 "2020-09-26T16:15:34Z")
It is stupid that MDMA and psilocybin are not legal for clinical tests and trials. [The Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research](https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/) has achieved some remarkable results. That is remarkable results with virtually no down side. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/50 "2020-09-28T13:14:04Z")
Well, as a species, we’re pretty fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2020, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/51 "2020-10-12T11:40:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > they announce, then smash (they smash in so fast after yelling Police !, that it is to be understood why nobody in the house heard the announcement) , one of them is shot, so they fire back. Taylor is killed. What exactly would the charges be against the cops? One cop is being charged with wanton endangerment oas his bullets went into another apt, but what would they charge the cop who killed Taylor with? He was shot at, he returned fire. It is a tragedy , not a murder. > > If the Police were charged, they’d be exonerated. You are probably right that this is what would happen in our current reality. My proposal? Eliminate no knock warrants. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/52 "2020-10-12T18:41:14Z")
I would imagine the prison industrial complex would balk at such a move. > **[Private prisons have spent more on this election than any other in history](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/10/private-prisons-have-spent-more-on-this-election-than-any-other-in-history/)** > > Most of the money's going to Republican candidates. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/53 "2020-10-13T14:56:05Z")
> [@BrickBat](#): > > I would imagine the prison industrial complex would balk at such a move. Fuck them. That’s an industry that needs to disappear. Prisons should not be a business, for profit or otherwise. IMHO prisons should serve only two purposes. 1. Keep dangerous individuals away from the rest of society. 2. Punishment for those who have committed crimes that did significant harm to others (murder, rape, robbery, arson, assault, etc.). Other than also keeping the inmates safe from each other and not violating their basic human rights, prisons should have no other purpose. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/54 "2020-10-13T18:22:44Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > This woman got frostbite from huffing Ultra Duster. Yeah, I know it’s 5 years old but I can’t keep up with the latest. > > ### [ULTRA DUSTED: Woman Huffing Canned Air Arrested] > > Experts say huffing canned air can cause instant frostbite. She looks terrified and confused. She needed a psych hospital, not arrest. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/55 "2020-10-13T18:36:15Z")
If we eliminated most drug laws (by no means am I saying legalize everything) then there’d be little need for no-knock warrants, as the primary use is to stop drug dealers from flushing the evidence. Dont get me wrong, sometimes the perps are known to be extremely armed and dangerous, and then a no knock raid with flash bangs, SWAT etc may be the right way. But not just to stop them from flushing a couple oz of drugs. But here is what we could do: make possession of most drugs a ticket- and if you accumulate two tickets you have to go into diversion, one and you _can_. Make selling a misdemeanor, unless to children. End the “war on drugs”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/56 "2020-10-13T19:20:07Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > IMHO prisons should serve only two purposes. > > 1. Keep dangerous individuals away from the rest of society. > 2. Punishment for those who have committed crimes that did significant harm to others (murder, rape, robbery, arson, assault, etc.). From a practical standpoint, punishment of this sort is insalutary and has a very low success rate (punishment is supposed to modify behavior, but the principle is lost when the negative reinforcement is significantly separated from the action). Violent offenders should get psychological, psychiatric and in some rare cases surgical treatment along with genuine efforts to rehabilitate them for re-release. Just locking them up for a while, treating them like vermin (instilling a strong sense of resentment) and returning them to the bottom rungs of peripheral society is not a recipe for success. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/57 "2020-10-13T19:34:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The problem with “legalize it all” is that the average person does NOT have the knowledge to be their own pharmacist or doctor. That’s why drug regulations were put into place in the early 20th Century. Some substances do require specialist knowledge to use safely. So what if we have the minimal restriction that anyone can use what they want, but they need a license card that they meet basic restrictions (age, criminal record). They furthermore would need a stamp that they have had a physician consultation about the specific drug they want to use. The license and stamps would need renewal every 5 years or so. All drugs would be sold in government-owned stores. They would all be in plain packaging marked only with the manufacturer, the exact contents and strength, and a label that says “this is a dangerous drug” followed by the specific health risks of the drug. The government would perform random quality checks and ban the manufacturer if fraud is detected. The government could tax the product… not to use citizens’ recreational habits as a cookie jar to rob, but to strictly offset the cost of administration and risk of harm to society. Marijuana would be very minimally taxed, while harmful drugs like alcohol, tobacco, methamphetamine, cocaine, etc would be richly taxed. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/58 "2020-10-13T20:43:47Z")
I’m ok with legalizing most drugs except meth. That crap is so addicting that we should accept the fact people need protections from doing something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/59 "2020-10-13T21:19:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So what if we have the minimal restriction that anyone can use what they want, but they need a license card that they meet basic restrictions (age, criminal record). They furthermore would need a stamp that they have had a physician consultation about the specific drug they want to use. The license and stamps would need renewal every 5 years or so. What doctor in his right mind is going to sign off on something like that which leave him/her open to getting the crap sued out of them when the person dies and the heirs wanted to blame someone? Except there will be doctors cranking those things out for a price to anyone who wants one, no questions asked, as long as they have sufficient money. There are drugs like fentynal that require a doctorate level of education to use safely, along with expensive monitoring equipment. Sorry, I can not more in good conscience allow the public to purchase those at will than I could advocate removing guard rails from the edge of a cliff. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Marijuana would be very minimally taxed, while harmful drugs like alcohol, tobacco, methamphetamine, cocaine, etc would be richly taxed. I’ll make you a deal - stop demonizing alcohol and pretending that marijuana is completely harmless and I’ll back fully legalizing weed, m’kay? Because while alcohol has a downside I’m not convinced it’s anywhere near the same league as cocaine or meth or heroin. (Actually, I’m all for legalizing weed as long as I’m not forced to breathe it as second hand smoke) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360/60 "2020-10-13T21:29:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What doctor in his right mind is going to sign off on something like that which leave him/her open to getting the crap sued out of them when the person dies and the heirs wanted to blame someone? This is a solvable policy issue. The only thing we need is physicians willing to educate someone on the substance, and a law indemnifying them from any claims arising from their advice. We’re not trying to make it bulletproof. People are going to do what they do. All we can do is force them to get educated, and make sure the substances are unadulterated so that the education is actually useful. > [@Broomstick](#): > > There are drugs like fentynal that require a doctorate level of education to use safely, along with expensive monitoring equipment. Yes, the status quo is working so well, nobody is getting killed by black-market fentanyl. Here’s a thought, maybe people wouldn’t resort to black-market elephant sedatives if they had legal access to reliably manufactured alternatives. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I’ll make you a deal - stop demonizing alcohol and pretending that marijuana is completely harmless and I’ll back fully legalizing weed, m’kay? Because while alcohol has a downside I’m not convinced it’s anywhere near the same league as cocaine or meth or heroin. You didn’t reason yourself into that position, so there’s no point in trying to reason you out of it. I can say that your intuition is demonstrably false and I’d be glad to engage with whatever research you have on the matter. Alcohol is an extremely dangerous drug. It kills its users quite often. It even kills bystanders. However I will stipulate that alcohol, cocaine, and meth all belong equally in the deadly drug class. Not heroin. Heroin’s harm arises mostly from criminalization and the black market. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-united-states-should-significantly-reduce-the-number-and-severity-of-laws-against-recreational-drugs/920360.md?page=4)