# Resolved: Violent Media Does Not Cause Increases in Actual Violence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990 "2014-11-18T19:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/1 "2014-11-18T19:33:41Z")
This is an interesting study, just released a few days ago: [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcom.12129/full](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcom.12129/full) > [@](#): > > Abstract > > This article presents 2 studies of the association of media violence rates with societal violence rates. In the first study, movie violence and homicide rates are examined across the 20th century and into the 21st (1920–2005). Throughout the mid-20th century small-to-moderate correlational relationships can be observed between movie violence and homicide rates in the United States. This trend reversed in the early and latter 20th century, with movie violence rates inversely related to homicide rates. In the second study, videogame violence consumption is examined against youth violence rates in the previous 2 decades. Videogame consumption is associated with a decline in youth violence rates. **Results suggest that societal consumption of media violence is not predictive of increased societal violence rates.** [Emphasis added] [Please excuse me if there is another thread on this - if so, I missed it] This leads me to the debate: in your opinon, are the author’s suggested conclusions correct? Can one go even further and conclude that watching violent media does not “cause” increased violence? What say you? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/2 "2014-11-18T23:58:27Z")
I’d say that the consistent pattern has been that if anything it reduces violence. And that seems to be the pattern for “vices in media” in general; increased availability of porn has coincided with a drop in sex crimes for example. Not an _increase_ like anti-porn crusaders have always claimed porn causes, any more than violence in media has caused an increase in violence like the anti-violent-media types have always claimed. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/3 "2014-11-19T15:01:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d say that the consistent pattern has been that if anything it reduces violence. And that seems to be the pattern for “vices in media” in general; increased availability of porn has coincided with a drop in sex crimes for example. Not an _increase_ like anti-porn crusaders have always claimed porn causes, any more than violence in media has caused an increase in violence like the anti-violent-media types have always claimed. I think the evidence is more mixed. I have little doubt the reporting of spree killings in the media has resulted in greater number of spree killings. Im also sure that beheadings in the news results in more “nutcases” going around beheading people. What I do find interesting is the claim in the OP that more violence in the media causes less violence overall. Im fairly nuetral on the issue. Yet, if I were to argue for more rape in videogames im sure I would be condemned by the same people claiming videogame violence has reduced societal violence. Also, anti gamergaters should be calling for greater misogyny in games. I suspect I’ll be waiting for a long, long time before I see mainstream groups advocating more rape more misogyny and more racism from our media. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/4 "2014-11-19T16:06:44Z")
Surely this concept is nothing new and goes back over 2500 years? I remember studying the Greek plays of Sophocles et al over 30 years ago, and this letting-out of the emotions was part of my studies. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/5 "2014-11-19T16:08:56Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think the evidence is more mixed. I have little doubt the reporting of spree killings in the media has resulted in greater number of spree killings. Im also sure that beheadings in the news results in more “nutcases” going around beheading people. Well, it _feels_ true, I suppose. But do you have any evidence to support the feeling? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/6 "2014-11-19T16:29:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well, it _feels_ true, I suppose. But do you have any evidence to support the feeling? The increase in number of certain types of spree killings, the increased number of death spree nerds leaving youtube clips up beforehand, and the increased number of beheadings by Western Muslim nutters. Sorry, I dont need a study to cite what I see before me. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/7 "2014-11-19T16:36:06Z")
So, again, it _feels_ right. I could as easily say I don’t need any evidence to prove to me that the sun orbits the Earth; I can see it with my own eyes. I’m not saying you’re wrong, mind. I’m just saying that what _seems_ to be true isn’t always, and confirmation bias is a harsh mistress. So before I agree with you I’d like to see the evidence that spree killings have increased, and that the increase is due to media coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/8 "2014-11-20T01:24:53Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The increase in number of certain types of spree killings, the increased number of death spree nerds leaving youtube clips up beforehand, and the increased number of beheadings by Western Muslim nutters. Sorry, I dont need a study to cite what I see before me. Sure you do. Go on Wikipedia and look for lists of spree killers or school shooters. You’ll find references to both going back centuries. The first school shooting in the US happened in like 1750 or something. There were no “good old days,” this shit always happened. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/9 "2014-11-20T02:02:15Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So, again, it _feels_ right. > > I could as easily say I don’t need any evidence to prove to me that the sun orbits the Earth; I can see it with my own eyes. > > I’m not saying you’re wrong, mind. I’m just saying that what _seems_ to be true isn’t always, and confirmation bias is a harsh mistress. So before I agree with you I’d like to see the evidence that spree killings have increased, and that the increase is due to media coverage. To be honest it has always felt right to me as well. [Here](http://www.jaapl.org/content/36/4/544.full) is a wordy article that has a few paragraphs covering the copycat effect of school shootings(about halfway down). ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/10 "2014-11-20T02:49:07Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > What I do find interesting is the claim in the OP that more violence in the media causes less violence overall. Correlation is not causation. They’re finding was “Results suggest that societal consumption of media violence\*\* is not predictive \*\*of increased societal violence rates.” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/11 "2014-11-20T03:37:32Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This is an interesting study, just released a few days ago: Is it an interesting study if it just says what all the older ones do? If it said gaming did lead to more violence, yeah, then it’d be interesting. I find it hard to believe this notion was ever taken seriously by anyone but pearl clutching moral guardians who thought rock and roll was the devil’s work and Harry Potter is teaching kids witchcraft. Given the rise of violent media over the last 50 years if it had an effect it’d be obvious in the crime stats. If one wanted to start a moral panic I’d get the hyperbolic negative stereotypes right at least. Gaming doesn’t make you a thug or prone to psychotic breaks, it makes you a loser. Your children’s future is at stake! They could’ve cured cancer, but instead they skipped school to play CoD all day! Think of the WoW widows! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/12 "2014-11-20T04:47:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > **Resolved: Violent Media Does Not Cause Increases in Actual Violence** Well, then, dammit, man, what will?! C’mon, I’m bored, there must be **something** that will! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-violent-media-does-not-cause-increases-in-actual-violence/704990/13 "2014-11-20T23:19:07Z")
Fuzzy\_Wuzzy does bring up an interesting point, though: if we take the study at face value should we lay off video games with lots of sexual violence? Is a game with rape as a goal no different from Mario Brothers?