# Respect, Dignity, and Same Sex Marriage. Do what now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167 "2004-10-14T06:59:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/41 "2004-10-15T00:19:11Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Yes, she’s openly gay (IIRC, she’s in charge of gay public relations for the Coors company, right?), but she is not running for office. Was the liason for Coors. Now she is working as the chief campaign manager for the Cheney campaign. She put herself into the public eye. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/42 "2004-10-15T00:28:33Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Was the liason for Coors. Now she is working as the chief campaign manager for the Cheney campaign. She put herself into the public eye. Ah, I wasn’t paying attention again. I wasn’t aware of that, and missed the several mentions of that in this very same thread. In that case, then, I’ll change my position. (Or, as conservatives would put it, “flip-flop.”) She’s fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/43 "2004-10-15T01:07:25Z")
I think Mary would be out of bounds if being a lesbian were something shameful. But the fact that Mary toured with Mr. Leather 1999 in order to promote Coors to gay people suggests she isn’t ashamed. The fact that Dick said, in speaking of daughter’s sexual orientation, that he and his wife both had enormous pride in Mary suggests that Dick and Lynne aren’t ashamed. So, I don’t see anything wrong with Kerry stating a fact that everyone who matters is aware of and is comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/44 "2004-10-15T01:11:49Z")
> [@](#): > > SCHIEFFER: Mr. President, let’s get back to economic issues. But let’s shift to some other questions here. > > Both of you are opposed to gay marriage. But to understand how you have come to that conclusion, I want to ask you a more basic question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice? > > BUSH: You know, Bob, I don’t know. I just don’t know. I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It’s important that we do that. > > And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults can live the way they want to live. > > And that’s to be honored. > > But as we respect someone’s rights, and as we profess tolerance, we shouldn’t change – or have to change – our basic views on the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I think it’s very important that we protect marriage as an institution, between a man and a woman. > > I proposed a constitutional amendment. The reason I did so was because I was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage, and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the Constitution. > > It has also the benefit of allowing citizens to participate in the process. After all, when you amend the Constitution, state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the Constitution. > > I’m deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not the citizenry of the United States. You know, Congress passed a law called DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. > > My opponent was against it. It basically protected states from the action of one state to another. It also defined marriage as between a man and woman. > > But I’m concerned that that will get overturned. And if it gets overturned, then we’ll end up with marriage being defined by courts, and I don’t think that’s in our nation’s interests. > > SCHIEFFER: Senator Kerry? > > KERRY: We’re all God’s children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney’s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she’s being who she was, she’s being who she was born as. > > I think if you talk to anybody, it’s not choice. I’ve met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. > > And I’ve met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them. > > I think we have to respect that. > > The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. > > \*\*But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we’re a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can’t discriminate in the workplace. You can’t discriminate in the rights that you afford people. > > You can’t disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I’m for partnership rights and so forth. \*\* > Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they’re proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately. Can someone explain what the bolded part has to do with marriage? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/45 "2004-10-15T01:13:26Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Can someone explain what the bolded part has to do with marriage? Those are rights that are automatically given upon marriage in the US. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/46 "2004-10-15T01:14:40Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Those are rights that are automatically given upon marriage in the US. The second half of your bolded part that is. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/47 "2004-10-15T01:20:31Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > The second half of your bolded part that is. Okay, so he was thinking on his feet. I forgive him! ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/48 "2004-10-15T01:42:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Their daughter Mary is an out of the closet lesbian. Until May of 2000 she was the lesbian/gay corporate relations manager for the once-notoriously anti-gay Coors Brewing Company However in July of 2000 when Lynne was asked by ABC’s Cokie Roberts about having a daughter who has “declared she’s openly gay,” Lynne responded: “Mary has never declared such a thing. …I have two wonderful daughters. I love them very much. They are bright; they are hard-working; they are decent.” And of course, the implication that anyone who is gay cannot be any of those things looms over this sentence, unspoken but perfectly clear. I know why Mrs Cheney is so upset – she’s fine with her lesbian daughter, provided no one actually reminds her that she is a lesbian. > [@SolGrundy](#): > > As for Kerry’s (and Edwards’, and the moderator’s) bringing Cheney’s daughter into the debate, I have to side with the “not cool” crowd. Yes, she’s openly gay (IIRC, she’s in charge of gay public relations for the Coors company, right?), but she is not running for office. If she’s gay, it’s her business, and it’s just as wrong for the Kerry platform to be dragging her out into the spotlight as implied evidence of the Bush administration’s hypocrisy, as it would be for Bush & Cheney to drag her into the spotlight as evidence of “See, we’re not the hateful bigots that everyone says we are! Do a little dance for the crowd, honey, to show them what a good dyke you are.” Respect and dignity, remember. You see, BC04 does drag her into the spotlight as their “Gay People love us too!” token. Of course, after I wrote a small diatribe about this, I noticed on preview you were unaware she was campaigning for them; now that you know, you agree with me on it, so I can keep quiet. I don’t know if people who aren’t in this with us can really understand, but many of us queers (like me) think of people like Mary Cheney as collaborators – sleeping with the enemy because it’s more comfortable or profitable there. As **jayjay** points out, if these people stay closeted (or maintain the appearance thereof) for reasons of safety or security, then it’s OK, but when they use their position to fight against my rights and my security, the gloves come off. Gays and lesbians are so close to being legally accepted and recognized as first-class citizens. If we don’t grab at this opportunity, it may be a generation before we get another chance – and I’ll be damned if I let some turncoat like Mary Cheney help keep me down. > [@](#): > > And btw, **stpauler** , the “lesbian trap” was brilliant. Made me think of Margaret Cho. She has a bit where she says the only way she’s gonna get a man is to cover her vagina with leaves and hope one falls in. Screamingly funny. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/49 "2004-10-15T02:09:05Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > OMG, I love the lesbian-trap. That was wow, **matt\_mcl**. Well, it _is_ reminiscent of Maggie Cho, so I can see how you got confused… but it must be credited to **stpauler**. _steps aside, does the little extended-arm gesture_ ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/50 "2004-10-15T03:05:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we’re a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can’t discriminate in the workplace. You can’t discriminate in the rights that you afford people. Well, according to [johnkerry.com](http://johnkerry.com), Bush: > [@](#): > > Opposes the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA)During the second presidential debate in 2000, Bush said he did not support ENDA because he opposed “special rights.” On a 1998 survey, Bush stated that he opposed anti-discrimination laws for sexual orientation. Bush has maintained that opposition since taking office. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/51 "2004-10-15T03:09:06Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Well, it _is_ reminiscent of Maggie Cho, so I can see how you got confused… but it must be credited to **stpauler**. _steps aside, does the little extended-arm gesture_ Whoops. The lesbian in the leaves must have tripped me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/52 "2004-10-15T03:12:05Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > I know why Mrs Cheney is so upset – she’s fine with her lesbian daughter, provided no one actually reminds her that she is a lesbian. Thank you. That was exactly my take on the Cheneys’ reaction, but I couldn’t quite put it into words. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/53 "2004-10-15T04:11:37Z")
_Posted by SolGrundy:_ > [@](#): > > Was there some segueway in there that I missed? Good post, Sol, but for God’s sake, the word is _segue_. What you wrote would be pronounced “segwayway”. I blame that goddamned scooter. Do we have to have a truly ridiculous, anti-civil-rights amendment proposed every election year? I guess it’s a sign of progress that what’s being debated is gay people’s right to marry instead of their right to simply exist. (And what’s all this “sanctity of marriage” crap, anyway? I was married, and trust me, there was nothing sacred about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/54 "2004-10-15T04:14:39Z")
> [@](#): > > KERRY: We’re all God’s children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney’s daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she’s being who she was, she’s being who she was born as. > > I think if you talk to anybody, it’s not choice. I’ve met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it. > > And I’ve met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them. > > I think we have to respect that. > > The president and I share the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. I believe that. **I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.** > > But I also believe that because we are the United States of America, we’re a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can’t discriminate in the workplace. You can’t discriminate in the rights that you afford people. > > You can’t disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I’m for partnership rights and so forth. > > **Now, with respect to DOMA and the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws. And they’re proving today, every state, that they can manage them adequately.** See, this bothers me. How can he say this? How can he support DOMA when he just said, in reference to anti-abortion legislation, that he cannot legislate an article of his faith? What is the idea of marriage being between a man and a woman based on if not faith? If he supports providing legal rights to same sex partners then what difference does it make if you call it ‘civil union’ or ‘marriage’? Dammit, Kerry. Either set your faith aside and do what’s right in all instances or at least acknowledge the fact that your faith has an effect on what you’ll politically support. Fucking semantics. I hate fucking semantics. :mad: And I’d like to go on record that politicians spouting off about their faith and going so far as witnessing to pander to voters is, to me, profoundly offensive. I realize I’m in the minority here, but I really don’t think any of it speaks at all to character. So, Kerry, don’t just recite Kennedy quotations. Put down your bible and try to explain to me what the damn difference is supposed to be between marriage and civil union other than religion. And as for you Bush, take your sleazy homophobic brand of compassion and kindly shove it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/55 "2004-10-15T04:41:18Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > (And what’s all this “sanctity of marriage” crap, anyway? I was married, and trust me, there was nothing sacred about it.) Here, here. I forgot about that specifically. Is it just a Bushism or is Kerry fond of that phrase as well? Just what is the “sanctity” of marriage? Seems to me that keeping the government can’t actually keep the sanctity of a marriage --barring the outlaw of divorce (yeah…right)-- only the couple can. Let’s see, judging by [divorce rates](http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html), including [those of various faiths](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm), heterosexual religious types haven’t all fully grasped what sanctity of marriage means either. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/56 "2004-10-15T07:08:30Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Good post, Sol, but for God’s sake, the word is _segue_. What you wrote would be pronounced “segwayway”. I blame that goddamned scooter. Well, damn. I’m not going to start any more threads, I think, because they just end up making me look even stupider than I do normally. But hey, fighting ignorance and all that: I’ve learned two new things from this thread. > [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > I don’t know if people who aren’t in this with us can really understand, but many of us queers (like me) think of people like Mary Cheney as collaborators – sleeping with the enemy because it’s more comfortable or profitable there. As jayjay points out, if these people stay closeted (or maintain the appearance thereof) for reasons of safety or security, then it’s OK, but when they use their position to fight against my rights and my security, the gloves come off. > > Gays and lesbians are so close to being legally accepted and recognized as first-class citizens. If we don’t grab at this opportunity, it may be a generation before we get another chance – and I’ll be damned if I let some turncoat like Mary Cheney help keep me down. Well, I wish all you queers the best. (You do know that I’m a homo, right? Like, a lot? All over the boards?) And I agree with the sentiment, to a point. But I’ve got some problems with the way you describe the situation. First of all, Mary Cheney hasn’t “stayed closeted,” as far as I can tell. She’s been open about her sexuality, but hasn’t made it the driving topic of the campaign. **I still say it’s hypocritical for a homosexual person to support a campaign that is actively working to deny other homosexuals their rights.** But this isn’t quite as clear-cut as y’all are making it sound. She’s got a bigger personal stake in this campaign than just her sexual orientation – whether you want to call that nepotism and a gravy train, or family loyalty, it could still be a stronger bond than whatever “bond” she feels towards other homosexuals. That’s why the whole thing makes me more than a little uneasy. I had no idea she was a campaign manager; I only knew her as “the Cheneys’ lesbian daughter.” None of the discussion is about whatever things she has or hasn’t done, it’s all about her being a homosexual. If the goal is to get people to treat homosexuals as “first-class citizens,” shouldn’t we be resisting attempts to reduce us all to a like-minded group with a common “agenda,” based not on our accomplishments but on our sex lives? Note the bolded sentence above. I think in this case, making mention of her in the debate was justified and she had put herself in the public eye – not only as a campaign manager, not only as the Cheneys’ daughter, but as a lesbian (from her previous job). But at the same time, I really don’t agree with the statement that every gay person, just by virtue of being gay, is _obligated_ to be a crusader for gay rights. You’re obligated to vote the right way and ensure that all your fellow citizens are treated fairly, but that’s true of _everyone_, not just gay people. Gay people should keep the right to keep their sexuality their own damn business if they choose, and they shouldn’t be condemned for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/57 "2004-10-15T07:26:26Z")
**Sol** , I think you’re on the money in some ways, but not in others. You often make the point that homosexual people should be treated as people first, gay second. It’s no one’s business whether they are gay or not. I think that’s right. But expressions like “vote the right way” worry me. Where now the “their own life is their own business” attitude? If you really extend to people the right to make up their own mind about things, then there is no right way to vote. Mary Cheney is an interesting case because it raises so many issues that cannot be decided by facts and cites and statistics. She is not only (presumably) going to “vote the wrong way” but she is also helping to promote the cause of a man and a party that represents the wrong way. Either we put that down to the fact that blood is thicker than water, or we refuse to discuss it, or we say she’s not really a lesbian, or we say, as you have often done, there’s more to a human being than their sexuality. At last there is an issue - more accurately and more importantly, a _person_ - that challenges people to think more about the interplay between sexuality and power and status. If push comes to shove, would Mary Cheney place her fight for sexual rights ahead of her push to get ahead, to be associated with prominent figures and winners? Would all other homosexuals? ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/58 "2004-10-15T08:33:02Z")
I don’t see anything wrong with what Kerry said, and I think some here are misinterpreting him. I don’t think he was trying to portray the Bush administration as gay friendly - quite the opposite! I think he was trying to show how UN-gay-friendly they are, to the point that even those in their own campaign disagree with them. It’s the same reason Kerry brings up John McCain and Eisenhower’s son. And, for that matter, the same reason why Zell Miller got so popular with Republicans. It’s always nice to have an opponent (or someone who would be expected to be an opponent) who agrees with you on an issue, and citing an opponent who agrees with you is more effective than citing someone who everyone would already expect to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/59 "2004-10-15T13:47:06Z")
Just for the record, my own stance here: I cannot believe how may people seem to be posting from the apparent tacit assumption that Mary Cheney being a Lesbian is something she needs to be _ashamed_ of. The fact that that’s evidently underscored a number of posts on both sides gobmacked me. I can see it from the pro-Bush faction, but getting it from the other side – huh? Granted that on a different world, where the pigs are flying south to winter in Central America, Mary Cheney would have a right to keep her private life private. But she’s foregone that by the numerous public roles she’s played over the years, for Coors, for RUC, and now for her father’s campaign, in some of which her sexuality was a significant element of her role. “Dick Cheney’s daughter” would not have made a good GLBT liaison for Coors – “Dick Cheney’s Lesbian daughter” did. So comments that address her sexuality that are not snide innuendo or overt insult do not strike me as out of line. As for her being a “collaborator” – as several gay people have had to say, being who you are is a whole lot more than just your sexuality. Mary Cheney is a woman who loves her partner, to be sure, but she’s also a woman who loves her father, and the father she loves is running for re-election as Vice President of the United States. And he’s a man who loves his daughter enough to be willing to take a public stance contrary to the one held by his running mate as regards gay marriage, for her sake. (And don’t forget that that’s extremely contrary to the tacit rules for being Vice President.) Lynne Cheney, on the other hand, is a bitch. Pure and simple. And this surprises whom? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167/60 "2004-10-15T13:57:35Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > As for her being a “collaborator” – as several gay people have had to say, being who you are is a whole lot more than just your sexuality. Mary Cheney is a woman who loves her partner, to be sure, but she’s also a woman who loves her father, and the father she loves is running for re-election as Vice President of the United States. And he’s a man who loves his daughter enough to be willing to take a public stance contrary to the one held by his running mate as regards gay marriage, for her sake. (And don’t forget that that’s extremely contrary to the tacit rules for being Vice President.) I tried very hard to avoid the term “collaborator” for what Mary is doing, if only because comparisons to the Nazis are far overdone and not entirely accurate when referring to the Republicans, on ANY issue. However, I can’t avoid the gut feeling that there is something very wrong with working to actively re-elect an Administration that has threatened so many of your fellow-orientationists (flow with it, folks…I can’t really think of a better collective term right now), father or no father. Like I said above, I love my mom to pieces. I’d do just about anything for her. But I would NOT act as a campaign manager for her if her running mate was using anti-gay rhetoric to get out the Rabid Right vote, even if she were to mutter mealy-mouthed platitudes about “disagreement” with that running mate without trying actively to change the campaign’s stance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respect-dignity-and-same-sex-marriage-do-what-now/269167.md?page=4)