# Respond to this Anti-Obama Gun Freak **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687 "2008-11-14T09:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/21 "2008-11-14T22:30:51Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > It’s hardly fair to call it “scaremongering” when we have ample evidence re Pres. Elect Obama’s voting record on the issue. Let me clarify this a bit: **Hazel** , I’m not saying the guy you quoted in the OP is right, or that I suspect that his predictions are going to come true. Pres. Elect Obama would need a good deal of political capital to spend to get any new gun measures enacted (and the issue is hardly clear-cut Democratic/Republican; just “roughly” so). However…give Pres. Elect Obama’s voting record WRT gun control to date, it doesn’t take mental giant to figure out, _should some gun control measure emerge from Congress and cross his desk_, where he’s going to stick his Presidential Bill Signing Pen… …right in the backs of American gun owners. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/22 "2008-11-14T23:54:16Z")
Since Obama had on his [change.gov](http://change.gov) site that he would work to re-enact the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures, I’d say the risk is pretty high. I actually have a bet with a friend of mine that it’ll be one of his first 100 days measures. Obama has removed the statement since it caused a furor last week, but it’s archived here: [http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:lZ5nLB1m2TMJ:www.change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/+gun+site:change.gov&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us](http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:lZ5nLB1m2TMJ:www.change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/+gun+site:change.gov&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) Here’s the gun section: \*Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn’t have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets. \* The Tiahrt Amendment keeps gun ownership search data exclusive to law enforcement personnel in the conducting of criminal investigations and prevents its release to outside parties. The “gun show loophole” is a red herring. All licensed dealers must complete all Federal paperwork and background checks for any weapons they sell, regardless of whether that’s at their shop or at a gun show. What “closing the gun show loophole” means is that private owners would not be able to sell their guns to other private owners without going to a licensed dealer to have him/her complete the forms and background check. That would enable the dealers to collect “transfer fees” and also for the government to exact a transfer tax, which could be set a punitively high rate. Guns cannot be made childproof, but impractical technologies like a magnetic ring that disengages an internal safety or a key code have been bandied about by gun control enthusiasts for several years as a means of inacting an indirect ban. The entire purpose for the Second Amendment, according to the _Miller_ decision was to ensure that military style arms were available to the average U.S. citizen should they choose to own them. Ironically, the decision that upheld the first nationwide gun prohibition did so by approving a tax and registration law as an alleged revenue raising measure. The language specifically affirms the right to own military firearms. So, yeah. The facts and his record clearly point to Obama moving to take away guns. Clinton had a majority Republican Congress through most of his tenure. Obama will be starting with a huge party advantage in the legislature. Obama has in the past endorsed a ban on all semi-automatic weapons and, despite saying he supports the right to keep and bear arms, voted in favor of every gun restriction bill that came before him in Illinois. Note that when the Supreme Court affirmed an individual right to own firearms in the _Heller_ decision, he said he supported the Second Amendment. He didn’t say he agreed with the decision. Big difference. Things are about to get very, very bad for gun owners. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/23 "2008-11-15T00:17:32Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I used a compilation of your responses. Hope you don’t mind, but I wasn’t feeling smart enough. Anyway, here is his response, followed by mine. That ends it for me, better than I thought it would end. > > Him: > I’m going to give him three years to see if he is all everyone thinks he is. For me, until he has proven himself, the jury is out. > > Me: > Quite decent of you. I appreciate your willingness to withhold judgement. A lot of people with your viewpoint are not so diplomatic and I appreciate it. Aw, now I’m getting all warm and fuzzy…Cheers! Where’s he going in three years if Obama doesn’t pan out for him? ---
**Author:** ![Erasmus\_Darwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@Erasmus\_Darwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erasmus_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/24 "2008-11-15T02:57:06Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I suspect that guns are a non issue for Obama. Certainly there are more pressing concerns what with the economy and the war. The topic didn’t come up in the debate, and I haven’t heard him talking about it during the campaign. It’s not even listed on his [platform page](http://www.barackobama.com/issues/) as far as I can tell. It’s on that site on the issues/urban policy page (scroll down to “Address Gun Violence in Cities”): [http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban\_policy/](http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/) It’s been on that site going well back into the campaign. It was later copied to [change.gov](http://change.gov) when that launched – it’s the same text that **FallenAngel** quoted and did an excellent job of dissecting. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Obama has said that he believes that gun ownership is an individual right protected by the Second Amendment, and he supported the Supreme Court’s reversal of the gun ban in DC. Lip service. He’s got a strong anti-gun voting record, he picked the original author of the infamous Assault Weapons Ban as his running mate, and he listed all those gun control measures he’d like to take in his campaign platform. Anyway, while the guy on the other board may be exaggerating with his claim of a complete ban, but he’s unfortunately more right than he is wrong. Obama indicated that he wants to permanently reenact one of the worst gun control laws of the past couple decades, namely the Assault Weapons Ban which had a negligible impact on crime and guns used in crime. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/25 "2008-11-15T03:26:34Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I’d like to hand this guy his lunch, but I’ve been going back and forth with him, to no avail. Help me! What would your response be? My response would be “President-Elect Obama and Vice President to be Biden are only as anti-gun as McCain/Palin are anti-choice.” Because it’s always best to toss abortion into the debate. And then point out that Dubya said he’d sign a renewal of the AWB if it came across his desk, this to try to divert attention from Obama/Biden who you’d have to be incredibly naive to believe were in any way, shape, or form, friends of the gun owning community. I know you’re not that naive, so I have to wonder why you’ve chosen this topic to argue about. It’s like saying Palin would support government funded late term abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/26 "2008-11-15T06:22:47Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/27 "2008-11-15T07:46:20Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > You just gotta feel sorry for people like this and leave it at that. > People that cling to their guns so tightly and have such an angst about someone taking them away must really, really be fearful of something. And to live with that fear all the time must be sad and depressing. > Even children eventually grow up and can abandon that pacifier or security blanket. They become more self secure and self reliant. “I’m a big boy/girl now and the world isn’t going to hurt me. Time to go out into the world and stop hiding behind my insecurities.” > Some adults still need that security blanket (gun) though and the thought of having it taken from them just terrifies them. I thought it was because we were trying to compensate for our small penises? I think this attitude is disgusting. I’m sure it’s true in some cases, but there are lots of people out there who believe, with consistency and intellectual honesty, that gun rights (primarily as an extension of self defense rights) are as fundamentally important, if not more so, as a human right as other valued rights such as religious freedom and freedom of speech. Imagine if an assault of freedom of privacy came down in the form of wiretapping or something, and when one person was concerned about the implication someone else said “You just gotta feel sorry for people like this and leave it at that. People that cling to their **privacy** so tightly and have such an angst about someone taking it away must really, really be fearful of something. And to live with that fear all the time must be sad and depressing.” To those of us who defend gun rights as we defend any other fundamental human right, that’s how you sound. I voted for Obama knowing his stances and I’m hoping he simply won’t view assaulting gun rights as an important issue. Given the current political climate, that seems like it will be the case. But there is legitimate concern about Obama regarding gun rights. The sort of placating bullshit he spews about how he respects the rights of sportsmen and believes in common sense gun laws is the exact sort of divide and conquer bullshit that gun control advocates use. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/28 "2008-11-15T08:02:33Z")
Oh, ferchrissake! Obama, despite what you have heard, is a fairly CONSERVATIVE Democrat!!! See? That’s FIVE exclamation points, the most I give. You have nothing to fear that your guns will be yanked from your warm, flexible, hands. ANYTHING ELSE IS FROM LISTENING TO SCAREMONGERS ON THE RADIO!!! Look: Dude is trying to build a fuckin’ COALITION! HOW THE FUCK CAN HE HOPE TO DO THAT WHILE DUMPING ON THE GUN FANS??? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/29 "2008-11-15T08:21:22Z")
You’re trying to win an argument over the internet? That’s kind of like trying to win the lottery, except you have a much better chance of accomplishing the latter. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/30 "2008-11-15T09:11:35Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You’re trying to win an argument over the internet? That’s kind of like trying to win the lottery, except you have a much better chance of accomplishing the latter. Well then. Everything’s done here. Close up Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/31 "2008-11-15T09:18:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Well then. Everything’s done here. Close up Great Debates. Ah, but just because nobody can win doesn’t mean the exercise is completely fruitless. You can still learn something - and surely Great Debates has to be one of the if not _the_ most civil place on the internet to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/32 "2008-11-15T09:36:30Z")
> [@Bobotheoptimist](#): > > My response would be “President-Elect Obama and Vice President to be Biden are only as anti-gun as McCain/Palin are anti-choice.” Because it’s always best to toss abortion into the debate. And then point out that Dubya said he’d sign a renewal of the AWB if it came across his desk, this to try to divert attention from Obama/Biden who you’d have to be incredibly naive to believe were in any way, shape, or form, friends of the gun owning community. > I know you’re not that naive, so I have to wonder why you’ve chosen this topic to argue about. It’s like saying Palin would support government funded late term abortions. I didn’t choose the topic, I was just trying to respond to an off-topic remark that this guy made and I needed some help. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/33 "2008-11-15T10:15:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, ferchrissake! Obama, despite what you have heard, is a fairly CONSERVATIVE Democrat!!! See? That’s FIVE exclamation points, the most I give. You have nothing to fear that your guns will be yanked from your warm, flexible, hands. ANYTHING ELSE IS FROM LISTENING TO SCAREMONGERS ON THE RADIO!!! Look: Dude is trying to build a fuckin’ COALITION! HOW THE FUCK CAN HE HOPE TO DO THAT WHILE DUMPING ON THE GUN FANS??? Read his website. You see that part where it says he supports reintroducing the Federal Assault Weapons Ban? _That’s_ why we don’t trust him to not dump on the gun fans. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/34 "2008-11-15T13:25:57Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Let me clarify this a bit: > > **Hazel** , I’m not saying the guy you quoted in the OP is right, or that I suspect that his predictions are going to come true. Pres. Elect Obama would need a good deal of political capital to spend to get any new gun measures enacted (and the issue is hardly clear-cut Democratic/Republican; just “roughly” so). > > However…give Pres. Elect Obama’s voting record WRT gun control to date, it doesn’t take mental giant to figure out, _should some gun control measure emerge from Congress and cross his desk_, where he’s going to stick his Presidential Bill Signing Pen… > > …right in the backs of American gun owners. So–what do you envision President Obama doing \*on his own \*about gun control? Precisely nothing. If you’re so worried, start working on the folks you elected to Congress. In fact, perhaps you should have considered their views before you voted them in. Don’t blame him for \*possibly \*refusing to subvert the will of our elected representatives. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/35 "2008-11-15T13:57:46Z")
Woo Hoo! I’ve never had anything posted in Great Debates before. I feel kind of smart, right now. Anyway, carry on… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/36 "2008-11-15T14:54:14Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > So–what do you envision President Obama doing \*on his own \*about gun control? Precisely nothing. That is not correct. President Obama cannot introduce something into Congress, but he can certainly write a bill and hand it to one of his former colleagues to introduce. It happens all the time, this is how Presidential agendas are enacted. > [@](#): > > If you’re so worried, start working on the folks you elected to Congress. In fact, perhaps you should have considered their views before you voted them in. Don’t blame him for \*possibly \*refusing to subvert the will of our elected representatives. Well, isn’t that a peach. After years and years of “Republicans are bad for America!!!” rhetoric, the people finally agree that they are and vote the Democrats in, and in return those same voters, all of which are moderates and most of which are moderate conservatives like me, have their concerns dismissed by someone who says “well, you should have thought of that before you voted”. Thanks for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/37 "2008-11-15T15:04:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > So–what do you envision President Obama doing \*on his own \*about gun control? Precisely nothing. Uhm…believe I said that. So, you’re paraphrasing me back to me to make a point to me? > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If you’re so worried, start working on the folks you elected to Congress. What makes you think I haven’t already? > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > In fact, perhaps you should have considered their views before you voted them in. Ditto. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Don’t blame him for _possibly_ refusing to subvert the will of our elected representatives. I can blame him for Global Warming if I so desire; it’s no less irrational than some of the things I’ve seen Pres. Bush blamed for. And at least with firerarms and the regulation thereof, there’s ample, publicly available evidence that Pres. Elect Obama is firmly, consistently, _gladly_ in the More! _More!_ _MORE!_ category. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/38 "2008-11-15T15:12:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, ferchrissake! Obama, despite what you have heard, is a fairly CONSERVATIVE Democrat!!! See? That’s FIVE exclamation points, the most I give. You have nothing to fear that your guns will be yanked from your warm, flexible, hands. ANYTHING ELSE IS FROM LISTENING TO SCAREMONGERS ON THE RADIO!!! Look: Dude is trying to build a fuckin’ COALITION! HOW THE FUCK CAN HE HOPE TO DO THAT WHILE DUMPING ON THE GUN FANS??? In the exact same manner that so-called “moderate” or “compassionate” conservatives consistently toss the homosexual community under the bus (and maybe give them a few kicks along the way) the first time the more “religious” members of the conservative base start grumbling about “Gawdless Homer-Seckschals!” WHY CAN"T YOU FUCKING111111 GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING111111 GODDAMNED111111 HEAD111111 ? There. Six _netspeak_ exclamation points. They count double, right? Do I win? Now, do you want to wipe the spittle off of your computer monitor, switch to decaf, change underwear, and try this rationally? Or do you wanna just go to The Pit? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/39 "2008-11-15T15:20:09Z")
I don’t think it’s going to happen (gun bans). Obama may be a bit of an idealist, but he is intelligent as well. As a gun owner, I think the worst that could happen is some reintroduction of the AWB. It’s be bandied about for so long that we know it was pointless, and with communication the way it is, I suspect that congress and the White house would be overwhelmed with people on both sides that are against it. There are plenty of liberals/democrats that own guns. And plenty of gun owners that voted for Obama. I own guns. And I voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687/40 "2008-11-15T15:22:39Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I used a compilation of your responses. Hope you don’t mind, but I wasn’t feeling smart enough. Did you admit that that you were repeating other’s arguments, or did you pretend they were your own? There are, roughly speaking, two kinds of internet debaters: One kind argues and debates becasue they enjoy the intellectual process. They understand that losing a debate is a good thing, as it makes you go and look facts up, find better arguments, or maybe even consider the possibility that the other guy has a good point. The other kind enjoys the visceral thrill of attacking someone, and the security blanket of repeating their own unquestioned beliefs. They think the purpose of a debate is to win. You’re in the second group, and it’s not a group any adult should be proud to be in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/respond-to-this-anti-obama-gun-freak/472687.md?page=3)