Machineguns are automatic firearms, but not all automatic firearms are machineguns.
Submachineguns are automatic firearms; but they aren’t machineguns. They’re submachineguns.
Assault rifles are typically automatic firearms, yet not machineguns. Note the distinction between assault rifles, a specific type of military firearm, and “assault weapons,” a vague and shifting term originally coined to describe semiautomatic-only versions of military firearms, which has gradually morphed into a vague term used to describe semiautomatic firearms, regardless of origin, with certain cosmetic features (mostly, that they have black plastic pieces).
The “Tommy Gun” armed gangsters of the “Roaring 20s” were real, and largely disappeared in the 30s. Some credit the National Firearms Act of '34 (which SenorBeef described already), while others credit enhanced law enforcement efforts, more severe penalties, and public backlash. I say it’s 5-to-6, and pick 'em.
To my knowledge, there have been 2 violent crimes committed with automatic weapons since the NFA went into effect. One of those was a police officer who used a department-issued Mac 11 to kill a police informant in 1988, the other when a Doctor (of medicine) killed another in 1992. Both perps. were caught, prosecuted, and incarcerated.
You mean, there were no crimes committed with those weapons after the ban. But the number of crimes committed after the ban obviously has nothing to do with the reason the ban was put into place-- They were banned because, before that time, they were indeed used in crimes.
To make the chain of cause and effect clear: First, automatic weapons were used in crimes. Then, because automatic weapons were used in crimes, they were banned by law. Then, because automatic weapons were banned by law, they stopped being used in crimes. How is this not a success of gun regulation?
They weren’t banned, they became regulated. Not quite a license - but you’d need a background check, police approval, etc.
I don’t know much about crime in the 30s. I don’t know if they resorted to illegally purchased tommyguns (pre-ban, smugged, manufactured, whatever) or simply turned to non-automatic firearms.
But yes, you could probably reasonably say that the NFA of 34 probably had an effect on the possession of those arms by criminals. And in the 52 years between the 34 NFA and the 86 machine gun ban, no legal gun owner used them to commit a crime. For argument’s sake, let’s say that’s a success for gun control.
Yet gun control advocates and legislators, despite this apparent perfect success, decided that machine gun manufacture and importation for civilians was a solution to a non-existant problem.
So for people that advocate registration or licensing or limited bans and say “just let us do this, that’s as far as we’ll go” I call bullshit. In the case of machine guns, they had their regulation, it resulted in a perfect record by legal owners, and they still banned it. That’s the face of gun control.
A lot of people are already willing to pay $1500 for a semi-automatic AR-15. If, for just a few hundred dollars more, they could get the same rifle with the addition of select-fire capability, I think they’d jump on the chance.
The added cost is negligible, and for a select-fire weapon, the utility is a proper superset of the semi-auto’s utility. People will pay.
And that’s even before considering the fact that hobbyists in general often have a willingness to blow money on novelty.
There isn’t going to be any movement on any but the most superficial and symbolic “gun control” issues for one simple reason – the Democratic leadership has finally been hit with the clue-by-four. Every thought of gun control will be drowned out by the thought of how much nicer it would have been if it were Al Gore rather than George W. Bush just out of the White House.
A terminology primer for those in need:[ul][]Automatic Weapon: Originally, any firearm that self-loaded it’s next round without the need for a manual action (such as a bolt, pump, or lever action rifle). Now used to mean a firearm that fires a continuous stream of bullets as long as the trigger is held down. Full-Auto is a synonym.[]Autoloader: Modern term for older definition of Automatic.[]Semi-Automatic: An autoloader which only fires one round for each trigger pull; originally referred to as automatics under the older definition.[]Machine Gun: An emplacement weapon, in the same sense that artillery pieces are called “guns”, that shoots rifle bullets or light artillery rounds in full-auto mode. A machine gun small and lightweight enough to be man-portable is a light machine gun, or a Squad Automatic Weapon, but is still too powerful to be fired from someone’s arms. Rule of Thumb: If it’s ammunition is belt-fed, it’s a machine gun.[]Submachine Gun: An automatic weapon that shoots handgun ammunition. A Machine Pistol is a very compact and lightweight Submachine Gun.[]Automatic Rifle: A rifle capable of firing in full-auto mode. The term was first applied to the Browning Automatic Rifle, which was actually a light machine gun.[]Assault Rifle: An automatic rifle shorter and lighter than the traditional size of single-shot military rifles, allowing it to be carried and wielded more easily at close or intermediate ranges.[]Assault Weapon: Semi-automatic firearms that possess features that gun control proponents claim militarize the firearm to a degree inappropriate for civilian possession. These can include being a semi-automatic version of a firearm also manufactured as a full automatic, having a high capacity (greater than ten rounds) magazine, folding stocks or pistol grips instead of fixed stocks, bayonet mounting lugs, flash suppressors, or muzzle brakes, and firing bullets of very high caliber, typically .50 caliber.[/ul]
“Well, you are evidently extremely passionate in your beliefs and convictions. Perhaps time and experience will have some effect. Meanwhile, have a nice day.”
To make sure I’m clear on that terminology primer, correct me if I’m wrong on any of these:
The M-16 and AK-47 are examples of assault rifles.
The Tommy gun and the Uzi are examples of submachine guns.
“Minigun” is synonymous with “squad automatic weapon”. The chaingun from Doom, if it existed, would probably be in this category, but it couldn’t actually be wielded the way it is in the game.
The thing you’d have mounted on the back of a Jeep or Humvee would typically be a machine gun.
[QUOTE=Chronos;10809842
“Minigun” is synonymous with “squad automatic weapon”. The chaingun from Doom, if it existed, would probably be in this category, but it couldn’t actually be wielded the way it is in the game.
[/QUOTE]
No. A minigun weighs over 50 pounds and shoots at a rate above 3000 rounds per minute. It’s not man portable.
Squad automatic weapons are a subcategory of light machine guns that are integrated at the squad level to provide for squad level base of fire operation. They’re on the smaller end of what machine guns will be in order to be easily transportable and operated typically by 1 man.
Yes, SenorBeef, that’s accurate, but it’s not how the chaingun from Doom behaves. He’s right, the chaingun from Doom serves the purpose of a SAW. On the other hand, RL miniguns, you’re right, are too big to be man-portable, despite efforts to do so.
Note: There is no difference in model name between a fully automatic AK-47 and a semiautomatic AK-47. They’re both AK-47s. Annoying. Especially since anything with a banana (bent in a curve) clip is called an AK-47 on the news.
Also, the AR-15 is the semiautomatic version of the M-16. Only one or two small parts separate the two. Conversion from one to the other would qualify as pretty trivial if it were legal.
He asked if “minigun” was synonymous with “squad automatic weapon” and that’s very wrong.
I don’t see how the chaingun from doom serves the same purpose as the SAW - the primary basis for SAW type weapons is a base of fire for suppression and fire ascendancy. That’s irrelevant in a video game of that type. Any FPS game fully automatic weapon serves essentially the same purpose.
Incidentally “chaingun” doen’t refer to gatling guns, which seems to be what people think. It refers to guns that are actually driven by a chain, typically attached to an engine. They’re used in roles where the user could not clear a misfire or a failure to load manually - the engine drives the cycle. Examples would be the 30mm cannon on the Apache helicopter and the 25mm gun on the Bradley.
Not true - by law newly manufactured or imported weapons (past some date in the 90s - I forget exactly when) have to be modified in some way that dropping in an auto-sear wouldn’t allow the weapon to function fully automatically. Typically a notch is cut in the receiver where the sear would sit, making it impossible to convert the weapon.
To convert an AR-15 to selct fire/full auto, it takes an auto sear, a different trigger, a different hammer, an auto bolt carrier and a precise hole drilled in the receiver. On Colt AR rifles since the 90’s, they have left a part of the lower receiver unmilled so that is is impossible to add an auto sear.
I think one could argue that all FPS weapons are fully automatic, in the sense that if you hold down the mouse button continuously, the weapon fires continuously (albeit in some cases at a very low rate of fire). To distinguish more finely than that, you’d have to watch what the computer-generated guy’s trigger finger is doing, and games don’t have that level of detail.
I dunno; 50 pounds sounds like (just barely) man-portable to me. The guy carrying that might need his squadmates to carry his share of the rations and other supplies, though.
There are FPS pistols that fire one round per mouse click, single-shot rifles, rifles that fire 3-round bursts per click. There is no need to see the character’s finger.
It can’t be fired hand-held, so you’d need a bipod or tripod. Plus a power supply and a lot of ammo. Not impossible but not practical enough to be done.
I just meant that the chaingun from doom had no special relationship with SAWs. Any FPS gun that operates like that is similar to any machine gun.
50 or 60 pounds for the gun - I’m not sure but I’m guessing that doesn’t include the battery. Or the tripod, since it wouldn’t be firable otherwise. And it can burn through 50+ rounds per second - that’s a whole lot of weight in ammunition.
Oh, OK, I was thinking that meant 50 pounds for the whole package. And I guess I’m a bit out of date on FPS games, too, since the ones I’m familiar with, even the shotguns keep firing when you hold the trigger.