# Responding to McCain: Good! Let the anger flow through you! Come to the dark side! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904 "2008-09-10T05:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/1 "2008-09-10T05:34:57Z")
Today’s [story about Obama / lipstick / pig](http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D933HUT80&show_article=1) makes me think the best tactic for Obama now would be to make the McCain camp _angry_. McCain is volatile enough that he might make himself look unstable. Cindy has already show signs of [http://www.upi.com/Top\_News/2008/08/30/Cindy\_McCain\_offended\_by\_Obama\_speech/UPI-27631220138762/](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/08/30/Cindy_McCain_offended_by_Obama_speech/UPI-27631220138762/)haughty privilege, and just from her looks I could easily see her dropping the N-bomb at some point. And Palin should be easily rattled, and pushed back into shrill defensive territory. " . . . the proude spirit, cannot endure to be mocked." – Thomas More ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/2 "2008-09-10T12:21:37Z")
I am as firmly in the Obama camp as anything, but I have to roll my eyes at some of your OP. You can tell from her looks that Cindy McCain is a closet racist? Seriously? How does that work? I’m continually surprised at what my fellow Democrats choose to put out there in regard to the McCain/Palin campaign. There are SO many substantive policy/political style points to ding them on, and everyone’s going for the National Enquirer-type stupid gossip speculation stuff. Attack him for his clinging to Bush while claiming to be his own man. Attack Palin for leaving Wassila (which had no debt when she became mayor) with millions of dollars in deficits. Attack McCain for releasing an ad that takes a child molestation prevention program that Obama supported and voted for and turns it into some sort of skeevy curriculum that teaches kindergartners how to put on a condom. Attack Palin for accepting a per diem for living in her own house. Attack McCain for driving the POW excuse into the ground. Attack Palin on her lies about supporting the Bridge to Nowhere. But this crap where people claim to know how Cindy McCain feels about African-Americans based on her looks needs to stop. It’s distracting. It tars Obama with his less-classy supporters’ beliefs and actions. It’s a really stupid tactic, in the end. I wish people would pass over the fluff and actually post the shit out of the real problems with that ticket. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/3 "2008-09-10T12:24:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I am as firmly in the Obama camp as anything, but I have to roll my eyes at some of your OP. You can tell from her looks that Cindy McCain is a closet racist? Seriously? How does that work? > > I’m continually surprised at what my fellow Democrats choose to put out there in regard to the McCain/Palin campaign. There are SO many substantive policy/political style points to ding them on, and everyone’s going for the National Enquirer-type stupid gossip speculation stuff. Attack him for his clinging to Bush while claiming to be his own man. Attack Palin for leaving Wassila (which had no debt when she became mayor) with millions of dollars in deficits. Attack McCain for releasing an ad that takes a child molestation prevention program that Obama supported and voted for and turns it into some sort of skeevy curriculum that teaches kindergartners how to put on a condom. Attack Palin for accepting a per diem for living in her own house. Attack McCain for driving the POW excuse into the ground. Attack Palin on her lies about supporting the Bridge to Nowhere. > > But this crap where people claim to know how Cindy McCain feels about African-Americans based on her looks needs to stop. It’s distracting. It tars Obama with his less-classy supporters’ beliefs and actions. It’s a really stupid tactic, in the end. I wish people would pass over the fluff and actually post the shit out of the real problems with that ticket. Amen!!! Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/4 "2008-09-10T13:01:02Z")
I’m amazed to see that Obama had the balls to claim that the pig with lipstick wasn’t Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/5 "2008-09-10T13:02:25Z")
Putting everything but the first sentence aside ( **jayjay** already responded to that well enough), getting one side angry about something inconsequential will indeed pretty much be a lock in voters’ minds. Had McCain been able to turn the lipstick thing back around on Obama with humor, that would have boosted his image by leaps and bounds. Getting pissed off never works; all that happens is people saying, “What, you can’t take a joke?” That’s one of the reasons Obama is doing so well this election, I believe; it’s incredibly difficult to dismiss him as just another angry upstart liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/6 "2008-09-10T13:15:41Z")
So, the plan is to make him so cross, he makes a mistake? So we’re going with the Killer Rabbit plan? Are we to also make Sir McCain soil his armor? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/7 "2008-09-10T13:19:01Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > I’m amazed to see that Obama had the balls to claim that the pig with lipstick wasn’t Palin. I’m amazed there are people brain dead enough to think that he was. Look at the video [by clicking here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg). It is absolutely clear that he was talking about false change promises of McCain’s and not Palin. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/8 "2008-09-10T13:22:34Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m amazed there are people brain dead enough to think that he was. > > Look at the video [by clicking here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg). It is absolutely clear that he was talking about false change promises of McCain’s and not Palin. If anything, Palin is the lipstick. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/9 "2008-09-10T13:49:31Z")
OK, sorry about the N-bomb thing, I have no idea what Cindy McCain’s racial attitudes are. But boy, doesn’t she just look like a humorless gold-plated WASPy country club lady? If racial attitudes in that set are markedly different now, that’s great, but a generation or two ago, look out. :shrug: I’m just thinking of how Obama might throw some of his opponent’s camps less flattering attributes into sharp relief. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/10 "2008-09-10T13:59:57Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > OK, sorry about the N-bomb thing, I have no idea what Cindy McCain’s racial attitudes are. But boy, doesn’t she just look like a humorless gold-plated WASPy country club lady? If racial attitudes in that set are markedly different now, that’s great, but a generation or two ago, look out. :shrug: I’m just thinking of how Obama might throw some of his opponent’s camps less flattering attributes into sharp relief. But you can’t tell…there were country club ladies who were working in some connection with the civil rights movement. The Establishment Set isn’t a monolithic bloc with identical social mores. Now, admittedly, Cindy’s money is less than three generations old, so she would be considered _nouveau riche_ in those circles, not part of the Establishment. And that money came from booze, which adds another anchor to her actual “class”. This stuff matters to the group that you put her in. Nowadays, it’s the money that’s important to most people who care about such things, not where it came from or when, but the Northeast Establishment does still care about it to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/11 "2008-09-10T14:01:47Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m amazed there are people brain dead enough to think that he was. > > Look at the video [by clicking here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg). It is absolutely clear that he was talking about false change promises of McCain’s and not Palin. McCain made a very similar comment directed at Clinton’s health care plan. Whoops…🙂 (highlighting mine) > [@](#): > > McCain criticized Democratic contenders for offering what he called costly universal health care proposals that require too much government regulation. While he said he had not studied Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton’s health-care plan, he said it was “eerily reminiscent” of the failed plan she offered as first lady in the early 1990s. > > **“I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig,” he said of her proposal.** > > SOURCE: [http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/mccain\_rolls\_out\_health\_plan\_a.html](http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/mccain_rolls_out_health_plan_a.html) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/12 "2008-09-10T14:14:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > McCain made a very similar comment directed at Clinton’s health care plan. Whoops…🙂 That John McCain died in 2004 so it doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/13 "2008-09-10T14:17:25Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > That John McCain died in 2004 so it doesn’t count. Erm…the quote I cited was him talking in Oct., 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/14 "2008-09-10T14:21:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m continually surprised at what my fellow Democrats choose to put out there in regard to the McCain/Palin campaign. There are SO many substantive policy/political style points to ding them on, and everyone’s going for the National Enquirer-type stupid gossip speculation stuff . . .I wish people would pass over the fluff and actually post the shit out of the real problems with that ticket. Before GWB I was a Republican; I like Obama now but I’m certainly not a Democrat. And coming as I do from the other side, I gotta ask: do you want to insist on having a substantial debate? _Or do you want to **win**?_ ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/15 "2008-09-10T14:24:44Z")
I truly think that some variation on this is the strategy. If McCain is the “Maverick”, Obama is going with the “Iceman” strategy. That’s the way he flies, ice-cold, no mistakes. You get bored, frustrated, do something stupid, he’s got you. It’s been described as “rope-a-dope” but I think what we’ll see as the weeks go by is more cool, detatched provocation designed to provoke an emotional response. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/16 "2008-09-10T14:41:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Before GWB I was a Republican; I like Obama now but I’m certainly not a Democrat. > > And coming as I do from the other side, I gotta ask: do you want to insist on having a substantial debate? _Or do you want to **win**?_ My basic frustration is that I want _both_. I want us to actually pay attention to the goddamn things that matter in our political milieu when we make this decision instead of paying so much attention to fluff and surface and rah-rah and fireworks and superficial crap like that. I want the American people to be fucking adults and do what needs to be done to make things run right instead of being 350 million 13-year-old girls at a Miley Cyrus vs. Cheetah Girls beatdown. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/17 "2008-09-10T14:42:29Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > **Responding to McCain: Good! Let the anger flow through you! Come to the dark side!** > > Today’s story about Obama / lipstick / pig makes me think the best tactic for Obama now would be to make the McCain camp angry… You’re conflating two things here: making the McCain camp angry does not require anger from the Obama camp. One of the things I enjoy most about the way Obama handles things is that he often laughs at the things that deserve it. Holding stupid talking points up for the ridicule they deserve can be very effective, especially in the hands (mouth?) of a speaker like Obama. IMHO, ridicule _more_ effective than anger; it might even evoke an outraged reaction…which just amplifies the effect. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/18 "2008-09-10T14:47:26Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > You’re conflating two things here: making the McCain camp angry does not require anger from the Obama camp. Never said that Obama’s camp should be angry, that’s just the opposite of my intention. Maybe the title of my OP looked misleading, but I imagine this as Emperor Palpatine’s goading of McCain, not Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/19 "2008-09-10T14:51:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I want us to actually pay attention to the goddamn things that matter in our political milieu when we make this decision instead of paying so much attention to fluff and surface and rah-rah and fireworks and superficial crap like that. I want the American people to be fucking adults and do what needs to be done to make things run right instead of being 350 million 13-year-old girls at a Miley Cyrus vs. Cheetah Girls beatdown. And also, a pony. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904/20 "2008-09-10T14:54:21Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > And also, a pony. Well, yeah…although I pride myself on the fact that I at least don’t look at all the horsepuckey lying in piles on the political barn floor and think that there must be a pony around here somewhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responding-to-mccain-good-let-the-anger-flow-through-you-come-to-the-dark-side/462904.md?page=2)