# Response to David Cross's Quote Re: the Bible **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 23, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501 "2015-10-23T02:34:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/21 "2015-10-23T12:53:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s also worth noting that Cross, in the opening quote, overstates the facts dramatically. It didn’t quite come about that way. Yes. Cross is a comedian, not a Biblical scholar. He’s going for laughs, not accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/22 "2015-10-23T13:19:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Plus women are not generally putting vast amounts of effort into turning men physically into women, whereas Christians spend a lot of time trying to convert atheists. Or atheist trying to convert the religious, well, Christians at least. David Cross is hilarious. I love his work. This isn’t about David Cross. It’s about the OP thinking she had a real zinger and when someone refused to act like they’ve been zinged she came here to find a way to verbally put them over a barrel and submit to their zinging. In the parlance of the time it’s #HelpMeCreateMoreFacebookDrama. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/23 "2015-10-23T14:06:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I did not know that, would ask for a cite but really immaterial, as still God designed everything for our modern meaning, so my point still stands. > **[talent | Etymology of talent by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/talent)** > > "inclination, disposition, will, desire;" c. 1300, "feeling, emotion, passion," senses… See origin and meaning of talent. [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/talent](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/talent) And when you say “God designed everything for our modern meaning”, what do you mean by that? Are previous and future generations screwed theologically, with only our generation able to wholly understand the bible? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/24 "2015-10-23T14:24:52Z")
I am not an atheist, but it seems to me like there’s an excluded middle here. On the part of the quote of David Cross, he has a point to issues with translations and editing, but I think it’s WAY overstated. Sometimes examples of much older versions, the most famous of those being the Dead Sea Scrolls, show up and the information in those are used for future translations, commentaries, etc. Now, obviously, none of the Gospels were written during the life of Jesus, and certainly there are comments, good and bad, about which books were included in the canon and which were not, but there is definitely a vested interest in at least getting as accurate as possible to the original writings. For the response, I also think it’s unreasonable to expect atheists not to comment on religion. After all, religion is one of, if not THE, most influential aspects on our culture, particularly in the US; it’s influence cannot be overstated, particularly as we look at how it Western culture developed and the spread of Christianity through Europe and the Americas. That said, I do find it frustrating, not just from Atheists, but from anyone commenting on a religion they don’t believe in, to focus heavily on what they perceive as negative aspects or inaccuracies; this is just as true of many Christians commenting on Islam. In this case, it’s not only unhelpful, but probably furthers the rift, by exaggerating inaccuracies in the Bible. Sure, his fellow atheists get a giggle out of it, but it’s not going to convince anyone that doesn’t already agree with him, and people will end up quoting it and start discussions between atheists and theists that will likely be counterproductive. Ultimately, the point is, it doesn’t matter. Obviously, atheists think it’s all nonsense, some largely harmlessly nonsense, some not so much. For theists, some may argue that the divine inspiration has made it so any changes actually are intended by God, others may argue that even if some small details change, the essential elements to salvation, faith, and the teachings remain intact. But given these positions, where is any traction going to be gained discussing the nature of scripture? There’s no proof either side can present that can meaningfully demonstrate the divine aspect, or lack thereof, to those holding the contrary position. Instead, I would propose using this as an opportunity to open a dialogue about how we can work through the differences to find meaningful common ground. I don’t see how antagonizing people with different beliefs can help us reach that sort of goal. So, sure, I do think a response should include an idea that, regardless of the fact that an atheist obviously doesn’t believe in the Bible, he does still have a vested interest in understanding because of it’s cultural influence. But instead, I think the discussion should be redirected toward an understanding of how it’s influenced our culture, and where these influences belong in our culture. All of that said, in general, I’ve found that any almost every discussion on Facebook regarding religion ends up messy unless everyone involved agrees. And even if everyone agrees I tend to see either “Wow, God is awesome!” or “Christians are so silly”. So, I almost always just stay out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/25 "2015-10-23T14:40:48Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: > I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. > > Her comment makes me squint really hard. How would you respond to her response. My response would be “Kim Davis”. If Christians feel they have the right to impose their religious beliefs on other people, then they open those religious beliefs up for public debate. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/26 "2015-10-23T15:06:38Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. Atheists don’t believe in God, but religion is a different thing. It’s not something you “believe in,” it’s something that clearly factually exists. And since some of those who do believe in God use their religion to affect (often negatively) the lives of atheists, how can someone be surprised that atheists will comment on it? Said friend is not thinking this through, and simply appears defensive about something that questions some aspects of her religion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/27 "2015-10-23T15:17:52Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Atheists don’t believe in God, but religion is a different thing. It’s not something you “believe in,” it’s something that clearly factually exists. And since some of those who do believe in God use their religion to affect (often negatively) the lives of atheists, how can someone be surprised that atheists will comment on it? Said friend is not thinking this through, and simply appears defensive about something that questions some aspects of her religion. This. To put it simply, just because I don’t believe in your god doesn’t meant I don’t get to complain when you effect my life through the beliefs of the religion surrounding your god. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/28 "2015-10-23T15:20:44Z")
I would delete her response. If, by some wildly optimistic happenstance you were actually talking to another human being _in person_, I’d probably say, “Well bless your heart!”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/29 "2015-10-23T16:20:43Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I am not an atheist, but it seems to me like there’s an excluded middle here. On the part of the quote of David Cross, he has a point to issues with translations and editing, but I think it’s WAY overstated. Sometimes examples of much older versions, the most famous of those being the Dead Sea Scrolls, show up and the information in those are used for future translations, commentaries, etc. Now, obviously, none of the Gospels were written during the life of Jesus, and certainly there are comments, good and bad, about which books were included in the canon and which were not, but there is definitely a vested interest in at least getting as accurate as possible to the original writings. Your post reminds me that Steve Martin felt obligated to tell people that he knew King Tut was not born in Arizona. Typically, jokes do not require cites. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/30 "2015-10-23T16:25:52Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Her comment makes me squint really hard. How would you respond to her response. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I haven’t been here in awhile. Thank you. The first thing I’d say is “lighten up, Louise.” The second thing I’d say is to ask if she was a literalist. If not, then she should agree that there is a nugget of truth in the joke. The third thing I’d say is to ask her to consider how often the religious try to impose their beliefs on the rest of us, from trying to put Creationism in schools to attacks on SSM to attacks on abortion rights. As for me, I’m fascinated at how so many people can be so deluded in this day and age. 1,000 years ago when Goddidit was as good as explanation as any is one thing, but now we pretty much know how much of it happened, and how wrong the Bible is. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/31 "2015-10-23T16:47:56Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: > I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. You should agree with her, and tell her how sick and tired you are of your long, cross-country drives where you can get nothing on your AM radio except atheists trying to raise money by assuring donors that through their generosity, they will not get to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![SpeedwayRyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@SpeedwayRyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpeedwayRyan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/32 "2015-10-23T16:48:21Z")
Of course atheists and nonbelievers spend time on something they don’t believe in…because many of the people that do believe in it want to base laws on it, start wars over it, and kill people in the name of it. If this lady woke up one day and lawmakers were trying to make things legal or illegal based on what a giant purple tiger that created us all (but was invisible to most) would think, I’m guessing she would get the picture. Oh, nobody in your state can buy juice on Thursdays, tiger says so. And you can’t get heart surgery, because the tiger says your soul lives in your heart, so if you get heart disease you will just need to go ahead and die. And some tiger-believers might bomb your place of business for your anti-tiger beliefs, or kill cardiologists that found a heart surgery loophole in the new law. And redheaded people can’t get married, because the tiger says they were born evil and we don’t want any more of them around. That’s why nonbelievers “care so much about something they don’t believe in.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/33 "2015-10-23T17:51:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > “Aww, fuck off, Betty!” > > Unless her name isn’t Betty. In that case I’d be lost. “Aww, fuck off, [Your Name Here]!” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/34 "2015-10-23T20:13:11Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > . . . Haven’t kept up with the latest, so did some quick search engines, and got mixed reviews, with one putting it succinctly, “depends which archaeologist you are asking.” How concrete is this? I guess not so very; I had thought the existence of a “Kingdom of David” had been established, but that its extent was still not completely established. If the very existence is still debated, that’s okay too. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yes. Cross is a comedian, not a Biblical scholar. He’s going for laughs, not accuracy. My fault: I didn’t catch that from the quote. I thought it was meant to be a (semi) serious criticism of Biblical origins. (But, then, if it’s just a comedy routine…why start the thread at all?) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/35 "2015-10-23T20:20:05Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > My fault: I didn’t catch that from the quote. I thought it was meant to be a (semi) serious criticism of Biblical origins. > > (But, then, if it’s just a comedy routine…why start the thread at all?) What do you mean by “just a comedy routine?” Some of the best, smartest social commentary is achieved through comedy. Although I don’t share the many of the same viewpoints as David Cross, he is wickedly intelligent and extremely knowledgeable. It’s just that he reaches his truth using the tools of the stand up comedian which include purposeful exaggeration for effect and sarcasm. He was not giving a college lecture. Every word can not be picked apart for accuracy. But that does not mean his overall message in false. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/36 "2015-10-23T20:33:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (But, then, if it’s just a comedy routine…why start the thread at all?) From the OP: > [@](#): > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: > I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. > > \*\*Her comment makes me squint really hard. How would you respond to her response. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/37 "2015-10-23T22:50:34Z")
Oh… Well, in that case… > [@](#): > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: > I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. That’s really dumb. We all spend a lot of time discussing things that don’t exist: we discuss fictional characters from books, TV, and movies. We have debates over the Star Trek Transporter. (And whether .999… = 1) We play poker and bridge – for money! We scan online porn. WTF? Are we supposed to talk about our jobs and our children, our health, and our groceries, and nothing else? The universe is chock-full of fascinating abstract things to jaw about, and jawing what we humans do best! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/38 "2015-10-23T23:27:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That’s really dumb. We all spend a lot of time discussing things that don’t exist: we discuss fictional characters from books, TV, and movies. We have debates over the Star Trek Transporter. (And whether .999… = 1) We play poker and bridge – for money! We scan online porn. > > WTF? Are we supposed to talk about our jobs and our children, our health, and our groceries, and nothing else? The universe is chock-full of fascinating abstract things to jaw about, and jawing what we humans do best! Atheists talk about religion for the same reason people talk about the Presidential race. Even if we aren’t running for the office, we’re still going to be effected by the event. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/39 "2015-10-23T23:39:32Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m amazed at how often people who aren’t comedians like to laugh at jokes. Someday, in the fullness of time, people will laugh at one of yours. I remain your advocate and defender in this matter despite the multitude of naysayers. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501/40 "2015-10-24T03:40:34Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > “Because you know, when the bible was written, and then rewritten, and then edited, and then re-edi -ted, then translated from dead languages and then re-retranslated and re-edited again, then re-re-re-edited, and then re-translated, and then given to kings for them to take their favorite parts out, and then re-edited and re-translated and given to the pope for him to approve, and then re-edited and re-written— all based on stories that were told orally 30 to 90 years after they had happened to people who didn’t know how to write… I guess what I’m trying to say is, the bible is literally the world’s oldest game of telephone.”-David Cross > > I posted this quote on FaceBook and a friend responded: > I’m amazed at how much time atheists like to comment on God and religion. They sure do spend a lot of time on something they absolutely do not believe in. > > Her comment makes me squint really hard. How would you respond to her response. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I haven’t been here in awhile. Thank you. I’m a positive atheist and I wonder this same thing myself sometimes. I know a lot of us are bitter but some are downright obsessed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/response-to-david-crosss-quote-re-the-bible/735501.md?page=3)