# Responses to an Israeli's act of terrorism: Reason to hope? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923 "2005-08-06T22:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/1 "2005-08-06T22:50:14Z")
A lone Israeli army deserter has committed an act of terror, shooting up a bus full of Arab Israelis. A very tragic event. But [the responses](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/609178.html) are reason for hope: > [@](#): > > Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Saturday the defense establishment would consider issuing warrants for the administrative detention of extreme right-wing activists, a move that he opposes in principle. > > Mofaz said he would consider detention without trial for any individual whom security services recommended should be put behind bars. “We will take action to arrest everyone the Shin Bet recommends,” he said during an interview on Channel Two’s “Meet the Press.” > > Mofaz said he could not put an exact figure on the number of people who could be locked up. Administrative detention is a measure commonly used against Palestinians but very rarely used against Israeli Jews. > \ > “Israel is facing one of its most difficult moments, an historic moment but to my mind this is a real test for the rule of law, and goes even beyond the success of the disengagement plan,” Mofaz said. > > Earlier Saturday, Interior Minister Ophir Pines-Paz said that he will propose establishing a governmental panel, headed by a judge, to investigate the circumstances of the Shfaram shooting attack and prevent future incidents. > > Pines-Paz met with Shfaram Mayor Orsan Yasin before paying condolence visits to the victims’ families. > > Vice Premier Shimon Peres also visited the bereaved families on Saturday, as did MK Zehava Gal-On (Meretz-Yahad), Meretz-Yahad chairman Yossi Beilin, MK Benjamin Ben-Eliezer (Labor and MK Amir Peretz (Labor). > \ > The leader of the southern branch of the Islamic Movement, Sheilh Ibrahim Sarsur, commented on a statement released by the radical Palestinian movement Hamas whereby it would avenge the Shfaram attack. Hamas “should keep to its own affairs and let the Arab public handle the matter,” Sarsur said. It seems that the Israeli government is responding well and Arab Israelis are responding even better. As disengagement approaches it gives me the ever so slight cause for actual hope. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/2 "2005-08-07T13:05:46Z")
While I share your optimism, it has nothing to do with **political** responses. But when the Channel 2 news (the most-watched, commercial channel) uses the **exact same terminology** when talking about this particualr act of terrorism as when it talks about acts committed by Palestinians (e.g. “the 4 casualties of the Terror Action are being buried… the Terrorist’s family… etc…”) – there is cause for hope that the Ultra-right-wing Jewish Terrorists may finally be getting the same **public opinion** treatment as their Arab/Muslim brethren… Dani ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/3 "2005-08-07T14:14:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But the responses are reason for hope: It seems that the Israeli government is responding well and **Arab Israelis are responding even better.** Well, if you ignore the lynching thing. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/4 "2005-08-07T15:50:53Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Well, if you ignore the lynching thing. :dubious: Who are they lynching? Near as I can tell, the Israeli Arabs stoned the guy who was doing the shooting while he was actually doing the shooting. I’ll admit I haven’t been paying too much attention to the story outside of the initial report, but I don’t think the Arab community is out lynching Israeli Jews or rioting. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/5 "2005-08-07T16:28:35Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Who are they lynching? Near as I can tell, the Israeli Arabs stoned the guy who was doing the shooting while he was actually doing the shooting. I’ll admit I haven’t been paying too much attention to the story outside of the initial report, but I don’t think the Arab community is out lynching Israeli Jews or rioting. Actually, as far as can be fully known at this point, the Israeli Arabs did, in fact, lynch the terrorist after he was already under control of the police, inside the bus. Hnadcuffed. They apparently pulled the cop and an additional security person away from the terrorist (they were trying to guard him against being lynched) However this is pretty much neither here nor there, as I _think_ **DSeid** was referring to long-term attitudes. I’d also note that _Shefar’am_, where this happened, is normally quite friendly to Jewish Israelis (I’ve eaten there several times, at a restaurant that may be one of the best “arab” restaurants in Israel 🙂 ), and I think the lynch _was_ truly a mob reaction to what happened right in front of their eyes, and not indicative of a trend. So the lynching of the terrorist, while IMO not a moment to be proud of, is not, also IMHO, counter-indicative of the relatively restrained reaction by the Arab population. FWIW Dani ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/6 "2005-08-07T16:49:32Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > Actually, as far as can be fully known at this point, the Israeli Arabs did, in fact, lynch the terrorist after he was already under control of the police, inside the bus. Hnadcuffed. They apparently pulled the cop and an additional security person away from the terrorist (they were trying to guard him against being lynched) Ah. OK. Carry on, then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/7 "2005-08-07T19:28:26Z")
Well, I was indeed talking about the broader public reaction, especially Israeli Arab leadership telling Hammas to bug out. No riots. But appropriate working within the system to argue for treating extremist elements the same whether they be Hammas or ultra-extremist Israeli settlers. One Israeli Arab leader is wryly commenting on the need to dismantle the infrastructure that supports such acts, including confiscation of weapons. As Noone observes, the willingness of the general Israeli public to view this terrorist in the same terms as Arab terrorists is as notable as an Arab reaction of restraint. (As far as the killing of the terrorist goes, there are conflicting reports. Eyewitnesses say he was killed while he was stalled between loading gun rounds. An Israeli news channel claims that that have evidence that he was already subdued, disarmed, and handcuffed when killed. There is going to be an investigation of his killing over the objections of Arab leadership.) ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/8 "2005-08-07T20:24:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (As far as the killing of the terrorist goes, there are conflicting reports. Eyewitnesses say he was killed while he was stalled between loading gun rounds. An Israeli news channel claims that that have evidence that he was already subdued, disarmed, and handcuffed when killed. There is going to be an investigation of his killing over the objections of Arab leadership.) What would be the grounds for the Arab leadership’s objections to such an investigation? Serious question, because the only ones I can think of would be considered uncharitable, at best. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/9 "2005-08-07T20:48:46Z")
Well they haven’t consulted me, but my guess would be similar to any other politician’s motivations. Spin control. I suspect that they want to keep the story simple - Israeli extremist terrorist subdued by heroic individuals. Plus perhaps a little suspicion that such an investigation wouldn’t occur if a Hammas terrorist was killed after the fact by Israeli civilians (even if I suspect that such a suspicion is unfounded, it is an understandable one to have, and a public perception that must be recognized.) Plus the working together might be strained if charges are brought against Arab civilians for having committed, shall we call it, an extra-judicial execution. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/10 "2005-08-08T00:18:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Plus the working together might be strained if charges are brought against Arab civilians for having committed, shall we call it, an extra-judicial execution. We will have to see how the investigation plays out, but still, your “extra-judicial execution” is simply murder. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/responses-to-an-israelis-act-of-terrorism-reason-to-hope/315923/11 "2005-08-08T03:31:19Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > We will have to see how the investigation plays out, but still, your “extra-judicial execution” is simply murder. I wasn’t being all that serious. The point with the use of that phrase is that some Arabs might see some parallel with Israeli “extra-judicial executions” of claimed Palestinian terrorists over the years. A practice that I’ve entirely understood but that has always left me discomfitted anyway. Justifiable homicide is still homicide. I think that Israeli Arabs will be sensitive to any percieved discrepencies of how things go down with an Israeli terrorist vs. an Arab one. Since murder of an Arab terrorists by rockets launched from helicopters is state sanctioned, Arab Israelis may have an expectation that murder of an Israeli one by mob action should at least be willfully ignored.