# Restaurant Chains that Have Improved Over Time **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375 "2020-01-13T22:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/61 "2020-01-16T06:22:15Z")
McDonald’s I’m sure is better - I was ecstatic when I heard they were doing all day breakfast, that alone makes it better. Still, I don’t go there as often as I used to. I can get better food paying just a little more at a local mom and pop shop than their standard fare stuff. Their standard fare is NOT cheap anymore. I’ll occasionally swing by there for a McDouble or something else off their value meal when I’m looking for something quick and cheap. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/62 "2020-01-16T15:16:22Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > We’re a couple hundred kicks east of SJ now. The [Togo’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togo%27s) down in the country seat was disappointing when we tried it. They’re a 200-store chain now so expectations diminish. The converted house by San Jose State was the original. It was so small they only had room for a couple picnic tables outside so almost every thing was to go, hence the name. I ate there many times but moved away and missed them. When I moved to Mesa there were two franchises, one by me and one in north Scottsdale and I rejoiced. Then the one by me closed and twenty miles is a long ways to go for a sandwich. Then that one closed as well and that was that. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/63 "2020-01-16T23:46:58Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > :dubious: Togo’s? Memory slosh. Wife reminded me between those posts. But I don’t recall the local Quizno’s she likes, either. Maybe I do a “suppress memory” thing. Like I try to forget being poisoned at Crap-In-The-Box aka Scarf-n-Barf. I think I remember this county’s McFoods. Three Subways. Two Mountain Mike’s. One each McD’s, BurgerThing, Domino’s, KFC/TacoSmell, JimBoy’s, Togo’s, Perko’s, Baskin-Robbins, and Carl’s. No other chains at all. This county is just not worth the investment. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/64 "2020-01-17T00:00:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > In the opposite direction, I’d say little ceasers. Their pizza was never spectacular, but in the 90s you could get 2 pizzas for $6. That was their whole gimmick, buy 2 pizzas for the price of 1 pizza at other stores. Now they’ve moved towards being the fast food of pizza with their hot and ready options (again, not terrible pizza but I miss the 2 for 1 gimmick). Because of inflation, a pizza today for $5 is a better deal than 2 for $6 back in the 90’s. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/65 "2020-01-17T00:08:03Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The converted house by San Jose State was the original. It was so small they only had room for a couple picnic tables outside so almost every thing was to go, hence the name. I ate there many times but moved away and missed them… One thing that stands out in my memory of the place on William St. was the 1st King Crimson album cover they had on the wall with the caption “I said NO PEPPERS!” The second San Jose Togo’s location was in a converted house too, on Campbell Ave. They moved it across the street to the Pruneyard and the house is now a Thai place. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/66 "2020-01-17T01:20:09Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > > In the opposite direction, I’d say little ceasers. Their pizza was never spectacular, but in the 90s you could get 2 pizzas for $6. That was their whole gimmick, buy 2 pizzas for the price of 1 pizza at other stores. Now they’ve moved towards being the fast food of pizza with their hot and ready options (again, not terrible pizza but I miss the 2 for 1 gimmick). > > Because of inflation, a pizza today for $5 is a better deal than 2 for $6 back in the 90’s. A better deal, but is the quality better? I doubt it. Similarly, I grew up around the area from which Subway restaurants originated and I remember the food tasting much better in the 1970s and 1980s. I just found someone on eBay selling a Subway menu that’s about thirty years old, and the foot-long sandwiches were four or five dollars back then. Using an online inflation calculator, they should be nine or ten bucks today but they’re about six or seven bucks. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/67 "2020-01-17T17:26:03Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > That’s the difference between frying something in beef fat and vegetable oil. They made the change to make the fries “healthier”. They then super-sized the ever living shit out of them to make up the difference. > > Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting Revisionist History on this topic. Wasn’t McD sued by Sikh for using “meat” without telling him? (why would non-beef eater even go to noted beef place??) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/68 "2020-01-17T17:58:32Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > Wasn’t McD sued by Sikh for using “meat” without telling him? (why would non-beef eater even go to noted beef place??) A vegan? Sikhism is not a vegetarian faith. All I can see is that they forbid halal meat. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/69 "2020-01-17T18:08:34Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > A vegan? Sikhism is not a vegetarian faith. All I can see is that they forbid halal meat. Hindu: > **[McDonald's Settles Beef Over Fries](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcdonalds-settles-beef-over-fries/)** > > Company Will Pay $10 Million To Settle Vegetarian Lawsuits > [@](#): > > McDonald’s Corp. has agreed to donate $10 million to Hindu and other groups to settle lawsuits filed against the chain for mislabeling french fries and hash browns as vegetarian. > > McDonald’s also posted an apology on its Web site, acknowledging that mistakes were made in communicating to customers and the public about the ingredients in the fries and hash browns. The vegetable oil used to prepare the fries and hash browns was not pure, but contained essence of beef for flavoring purposes. Many Hindus consider cows sacred and do not eat beef. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/70 "2020-01-17T18:36:42Z")
In the ‘standard fast food chains’, I think that since the 90s McDonald’s has stayed about the same (with some better quality things on the menu at various points), Burger King’s fries got worse but burgers got better, Wendy’s quality dropped a lot, and Hardees/Carl Jr improved quality and consistency quite a bit. Arby’s upped their quality and hugely expanded their menu. Taco Bell upped their quality and has jostled their menu a lot. Their relative prices seem to have gone up, I remember ‘fast food’ as being significantly cheaper than ‘fast casual’ or ‘table service lunch, minus the tip’, but now unless you milk the value menu it will be about the same. Taco Bell is especially noteworthy on the price increase, it used to be that they were by far the cheapest place to go with things like 10 tacos for $1 but now they’re about the same price as everyone else. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > A better deal, but is the quality better? I doubt it. I agree, Little Caesar’s in the 90s was ‘pretty good compared to the other guys and cheaper’ now they’re going for ‘cheap and fast’. I like what they do reasonably well - they’re not great pizza, but they’re not bad and have the best price to quality ratio of anyone. But they’ve definitely reduced quality from what they did in the past to reduce price. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/71 "2020-01-17T18:45:44Z")
I remember Little Caesar’s packaging included two pizzas on one long paper-covered cardboard sheet. It made for an unwieldy ride home. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/72 "2020-01-17T23:22:05Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Togo’s is local to San Jose’s area. Erik’s Delicafe is also local, born in Scott’s Valley. You eat there, you’re eating local. One that’s a California chain you might want to check out the next time you’re in Santa Cruz is Ike’s Love and Sandwiches on Ocean St. I first encountered them in Davis and was really pleased when the opened one here. Good selection of decent bread and great sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/73 "2020-01-17T23:26:42Z")
I like Togo’s. None local, so I go when I can. > [@Purd\_Werfect](#): > > One that’s a California chain you might want to check out the next time you’re in Santa Cruz is Ike’s Love and Sandwiches on Ocean St. I first encountered them in Davis and was really pleased when the opened one here. Good selection of decent bread and great sandwiches. We got one of those, a little expensive but they’re big. And the sandwich names get kind of painful to say. Each store has their own unique menu (with overlap). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/74 "2020-01-17T23:30:58Z")
Is that one of those sandwich restaurants where each sandwich has a stupid name that’s slightly embarrassing to say? I hate that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/75 "2020-01-17T23:35:41Z")
I usually skip over the silly names and just tell the attendant that Ill have the Pastrami and Swiss. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/76 "2020-01-17T23:37:00Z")
Not really stupid, more like named after celebrities and pro athletes that play for regional teams. You can order by number as well, but I don’t mind ordering the Matt Cain or the Paul Reuben, as examples. It wouldn’t stop me from eating there. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/77 "2020-01-17T23:50:57Z")
Yeah they’re all numbered. I should point out that there are hundreds of numbered sandwiches, but each location has a slightly unique menu. I think one I’ve had is “Chase Ottney is Hella Sexy” so I’d say the number in that case (whoever that is, I assumed Utley but remember wrong) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/78 "2020-01-18T00:50:32Z")
I don’t think Chipotle has been cutting any corners. Wendy’s is the only fast food burger served near me that doesn’t make me feel ill. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/79 "2020-01-20T04:22:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Maybe it was Domino’s. Domino’s is/was well known in marketing circles, for actually listening to their customers, and making a significant change based on that, and successfully refreshing their business. The change they made was to make their pizzas more typically crappy American-style fast-food style. That is, sweeter. Like their customers wanted. They didn’t use those terms to describe their new recipe: they don’t want to insult their customers. The just say that they’d listened to their customers and that the customers liked the new recipe. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375/80 "2020-01-20T04:34:52Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Domino’s is/was well known in marketing circles, for actually listening to their customers, and making a significant change based on that, and successfully refreshing their business. > > The change they made was to make their pizzas more typically crappy American-style fast-food style. That is, sweeter. Like their customers wanted. They didn’t use those terms to describe their new recipe: they don’t want to insult their customers. The just say that they’d listened to their customers and that the customers liked the new recipe. That does not sound right to me at all. The main difference between their old and new pizzas was their crust. They used to be awful. Now they’re tolerable. Their sauce? I don’t know. I remember it as being very sweet before, and I feel like it’s less sweet now, but I wouldn’t swear by that, as that’s not the essential difference between the old pizza and the new one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-chains-that-have-improved-over-time/846375.md?page=5)