# Restaurant Closes at 10 pm. I Show Up At 9:59. Do They Seat Me?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 16, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693 "2009-03-16T23:30:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/21 "2009-03-17T16:36:02Z")
> [@Discipline](#):
>
> It never hurts to ask, you know. If it’s getting late just stick your head in and ask if it’s too late to get a quick sandwich. Until the kitchen is being bleached, I doubt any decent restaurant would turn you down.
But I think his point may be, he’s exhausted and doesn’t want to have to restaurant shop, he wants to be able to make some consistent assumption based on the posted hours. It sounds like there is no real answer to that?
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/22 "2009-03-17T17:58:20Z")
> [@sachertorte](#):
>
> I just read a book, _Soul of the Chef_, and the author relays a story about a line cook who got fired on the spot for griping about a late arrival being seated. That was at The French Laundry, so the standards for other kitchens/chain restaurants/fast food are probably quite different.
Yes. The French Laundry books a limited number of customers per night, and you must book a specific time in advance. That is very different from a restaurant that is just open until closing time. (By the way, it was simultaneously the best meal, the most expensive meal, and the best service I have ever had. I think it was $500 for two and worth every penny, even if I had to save up for months to afford it.)
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### Author:  [@Snake\_Plissken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake_Plissken)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/23 "2009-03-17T19:13:22Z")
> [@oboelady](#):
>
> My most memorable experience with a restaurant late at night was a few years ago during my one trip to Europe. We (four of us) were driving into the mountains of Austria, ran into a lot of snow that slowed us down and arrived at our resort town much later than we expected (aobut 10:00 at night). We saw a restaurant that appeared to be open, so two of us poked our heads inside. There were four people sitting at a table talking. Turns out it was the owner and 3 waitresses. When we asked if they were open, they said no, they had closed about a half hour ago. Then they asked how many people there were all together. We told them four. They looked at their watches and said we wouldn’t find anyplace else open in town, so they better take care of us. The owner, and chef, asked us to restrtict ourselves to certain items on the menu - which we were more than happy to do. When it came to my turn to order, I looked at the owner and said, “Surprise me.” He got a big smile on his face and went back and started cooking for us. When the dinners came out, the owner sat with us while we ate and we talked for a while. I can’t remember what he made for me - I just remember it was delicious. Needless to say, we left a big tip.
> Moral of the story - ask, you never know what the answer might be.
You get it,
I’ve never turned anyone away, even if they were a little late. The key to making it work is being there to the end, and working in the trenches with your employees.
If your employees know whats going on with your business, ie knowing just how much it means to have a butt in every seat as much as possible, they will work with you to make it work.
Yeah, you get some jerks, and there have been some truly evil people I asked to stay away, but thats not the norm. I waited on Buddy Rich when I was a teenager. Man I wanted to go upside his head.
Your “surprise me” tactic was right on. You gave the chef the ability to give you the best quality possible, and gave him an opportunity to show off a bit…and trust me, we are all show-offs. We wouldn’t be good chefs if we weren’t.
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### Author:  [@Snake\_Plissken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake_Plissken)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/24 "2009-03-17T19:19:44Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#):
>
> I spent 15 years working in restaurants and IMHO it is unwise to show up at a sit-down restaurant at closing time. Half the food is packed up and put away, half of the equipment is cleaned and stored, and half the staff is gone and the remaining staff are in a “We’re Done” mindset and your presence will rudely (in their opinion) pull them out of that mindset.
>
> This results in a “Are you F\*%king kidding me?!?!” attitude from the cooks and has them stomping around collecting the ingredients for your meal and dirtying equipment they just cleaned for the night. As they are done caring about quality you are likely to receive an inferior (perhaps on purpose to discourage repeat behavior) or even sabotaged meal.
>
> Among things I never do in when dining in a restaurant, I never show up at closing time. Unwise.
I’ve worked in restaurants since 1976 and never once have I seen a meal sabotaged, but then I have more often than not worked quality places and with people that take pride in what they do.
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### Author:  [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)
#### Post date: [March 17, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/25 "2009-03-17T20:20:14Z")
> [@Snake\_Plissken](#):
>
> I’ve worked in restaurants since 1976 and never once have I seen a meal sabotaged, but then I have more often than not worked quality places and with people that take pride in what they do.
Seconded, 12 years experience. I don’t know where this myth comes from, but cooks don’t sabotage customer’s food. From fast food to fine dining, it just doesn’t happen.
As for closing time, restaurant owners don’t pick the time arbitrarily. They determine the point when it becomes too expensive to keep paying staff, based on the number of guests walking through the door. On a slow night, the business is losing money, so the sooner we close, the better.
Lets say it is almost 9PM Sunday Night, and we close at 9 on Sundays. We’ve done less then 20 covers, and no one has come in since 7. The kitchen is broken down and cleaned. Suddenly, a 2-top shows up at the door, and the MOD must decide whether or not to seat them.
If he turns them away, he could have the place locked down in 15 minutes. If he seats them, no one will be going home until after 10, and he might be there as late as 10:30. The owner now has to pay 1-1.5 hours of wages, instead of 15 minutes, to 2 or 3 cooks, a dishwasher, a waiter and a bartender/MOD. That’s $60-$70 in labor costs alone. Those two people will need to spend over $100-$120 just for the restaurant to break even. If they spend less then $80 or so, then turning them away would have been the more economical option.
Perhaps a good rule-of-thumb for the late night diner would be this: If you show up at closing time, look to see if there are still people eating. If there are, then you won’t be slowing down the closing process much, so go ahead and ask for a table. If the place is empty, look for another place to eat, or expect to be turned away.
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### Author:  [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/26 "2009-03-18T03:09:28Z")
> [@Snake\_Plissken](#):
>
> I’ve worked in restaurants since 1976 and never once have I seen a meal sabotaged, but then I have more often than not worked quality places and with people that take pride in what they do.
> [@Amblydoper](#):
>
> Seconded, 12 years experience. I don’t know where this myth comes from, but cooks don’t sabotage customer’s food. From fast food to fine dining, it just doesn’t happen.
Is it common? Of course not. But to say that it never happens strikes me as naive. Never? It happens. I’ve seen it happen. This one I did not see: I know a guy who stirred a woman’s drink with his penis. He mixed her a drink, took it around the corner, stirred it with his penis, brought it back out front a served it to her while she was sitting at the bar. Sociopaths have jobs too. This was at an average-quality bar. As for fast food places, those who think disgusting shenanigans are a myth at these places are completely out of touch.
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### Author:  [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/27 "2009-03-18T03:49:39Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#):
>
> Is it common? Of course not. But to say that it never happens strikes me as naive. Never? It happens. I’ve seen it happen. This one I did not see: I know a guy who stirred a woman’s drink with his penis. He mixed her a drink, took it around the corner, stirred it with his penis, brought it back out front a served it to her while she was sitting at the bar. Sociopaths have jobs too. This was at an average-quality bar. As for fast food places, those who think disgusting shenanigans are a myth at these places are completely out of touch.
It never happened when I worked at fast food places as a teenager, perhaps partly because there was always supervision or the possibility of it. At better places it didn’t happen because it was simply not considered. Bars I’ve worked in, well, you mix drinks in front of the customer, so it’d be a litrle difficult to stick any appendage in there without them noticing no matter how far gone they were. 😃 I’m not saying it never ever happens, but it’s got to be really, really, really uncommon.
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### Author:  [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/28 "2009-03-18T10:45:08Z")
I concur: food sabotage is an urban legend. I’m not saying it never happens, but the reason the stories are so often repeated has more to do with our fears than reality.
I would estimate that sabotaging someone’s meal happens about as often as a staff member punching a customer. Not never, but rare as hell. (And the offenses are of comparable seriousness.)
As a food service lifer, I have ways of registering my displeasure. A way that happened without your knowledge would miss the point: I want you to know I think you’re being an asshole.
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### Author:  [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/29 "2009-03-18T10:53:43Z")
As to the OP: as others have said, just ask. If you show the slightest concern about whether or not you’re being a pain, you will immediately rocket to the 95th percentile of customerdom, and transform yourself from an enemy to a friend. I’ll be a lot less likely to say no to someone who shows some consideration than to someone who treats me like a 24-hour vending machine.
Of course, you’ll still need to tip well. 🙂
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### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/30 "2009-03-18T10:54:47Z")
I worked as a cook from the time I was 16 until mid 20s and never saw any sabotage, other than one guy once claiming he put weed in a cops salad (and I think it was total BS).
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### Author:  [@Shot\_Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_Clock)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/31 "2009-03-18T11:03:21Z")
I think the SDMB rule of “Don’t Be A Jerk” can come in handy here: if the restaurant is still open, the guest should be seated and served. That is the duty of the Innkeeper. I drives me nuts when a customer comes in 2 minutes before we close, but I tell myself and the staff, “Such is the price we pay for the life we’ve chosen”.
That said, if the customer comes in at closing, gets seated, and then decides to perform a remake of My Dinner With Andre, then they’re just being abusive of the staff.
Have your dinner, please don’t rush, but don’t make the Closing Time Meal your life’s work, if you know what I’m saying.
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### Author:  [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/32 "2009-03-18T11:16:00Z")
It’s completely dependent on circumstance, at least in the places I’ve worked/frequented. I’m a regular at our local Outback, and they have a normal weekday closing time of 9:30. I’m sometimes there later than that, but I’m sitting at the bar, nursing a beer and talking to the staff or someone else at the bar; most nights, the last call has gone out at 9:30 and everyone has paid their bill, even if they’re still sitting there drinking their beers or whatever. Almost every night, there are tables and bar customers still around after 9:30, but the last call has been made and the kitchen is officially closed. If someone comes in at 9:29, they will be told that last call is being made so whatever they order will be the last drink of the night. The kitchen will have to cook whatever is ordered, and while they may not be happy about it, they’ll do a good job.
On the other hand, I’ve seen situations where someone who is serving has a table that has been sitting there since 8:30, is still nursing the margaritas they got an hour and a half ago, and are just sitting there talking until nearly 10:00 or later. They almost always seem to leave shitty tips (and by that I mean, if you’re sitting at a table for a lot longer than it takes to eat your meal comfortably, you’re potentially costing the server sales and tips, since that table is not available for seating and chances are you’re not going to compensate for the additional tips that are lost) and while they may not get any sabotage, they will be reviled. So if you don’t mind being a jerk, go for it.
Now, in situations where you’re coming off a long trip and you’re tired and hungry and just want something to eat and you just sneak in the door before closing…you’re probably fine.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/33 "2009-03-18T13:59:01Z")
There are restaurants that claim a closing time of say, 10 p.m. but make it obvious to anyone eating there after 8:45 or so that their goal is to have everything done and cleaned up by 10 so they can zoom out the door as fast as possible. This includes general cleaning and vacuuming, putting chairs up on tables etc. and making it obvious that your experience eating out is secondary to their convenience.
Restaurants that do this are effectively telling people that they’re not wanted towards the end of their advertised working schedule. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a factor in restaurant closings.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/34 "2009-03-18T15:32:49Z")
> [@thetruewheel](#):
>
> As to the OP: as others have said, just ask. If you show the slightest concern about whether or not you’re being a pain, you will immediately rocket to the 95th percentile of customerdom, and transform yourself from an enemy to a friend. I’ll be a lot less likely to say no to someone who shows some consideration than to someone who treats me like a 24-hour vending machine.
This. Consider…
_Scenario One_
Prospective Diner approaches restaurant. Reads sign on door: Open till 10pm. Looks at watch: 9:50pm. Pokes head in door, catches eye of Hostess.
**PD:** Hey, is it too late to get a table?
**H:** I’m sorry, we’re just closing up the kitchen.
**PD:** Fuck! Shit! Your fucking sign says open till 10! (stomp stomp stomp)
**H:** Sorry, sir (and thinking: what an asshole).
Prospective Diner leaves hungry.
_Scenario Two_
Prospective Diner approaches restaurant. Reads sign on door: Open till 10pm. Looks at watch: 9:50pm. Pokes head in door, catches eye of Hostess.
**PD:** Hey, is it too late to get a table?
**H:** I’m sorry, we’re just closing up the kitchen.
**PD:** Okay, I understand. I just landed at the airport and I’m starving; do you have any ideas where I could go for a good meal this time of night?
_possible answer one_
**H:** Sure, there’s a truck stop about half a mile up, it doesn’t look like much, but I promise, the open-faced turkey sandwich is really good.
_possible answer two_
**H:** Hang on a second … the kitchen says they’ve got some alfredo pasta on the back burner. Come on in.
Doesn’t always work. But will work more often than the alternative.
---
### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/35 "2009-03-18T16:19:32Z")
I have had a lot of experience dealing with this.
First of all, customer service must come first. If you find yourself in a situation with customers coming routinely near closing time, that means you need to alter your hours to reflect this. Otherwise you’re losing money.
Many places won’t do this because they simply don’t want to. You can require employees to work overtime, of course you have to pay them, but it’s easily fixed by sending them home early the next day or simply offsetting the overtime with the income the extra meal provided.
You need to do ACCURATE (emphasis on accurate) cost analysis to see if your prices cover this. If not you need to adjust it. You can’t believe the number of budgets I’ve seen for hotels/resturants which budget NO MONEY for overtime. C’mon like you are saying for an entire year you expect not ONE person to work overtime.
If employees don’t like it, well get new ones. I have had lots of jobs where overtime is required. Make sure employees hired understand this is not the kind of job where you can always expect to leave on time.
As for people saying you’re being a jerk, no you’re not. You have money to spend and there are businesses that say they don’t WANT IT? I used to work and have to go into overtime, I didn’t like it, but that is the way it is. I don’t like paying taxes but that’s the way it is.
It always surprises me at the businesses who don’t care. We have one business with a VERY RUDE, clerk who works in the morning. I will NOT go into that store if he’s there. I walk 1 block out of my way to another store. Can you imagine how many other people are doing this? But yet you’ll keep a bad clerk.
Too many businesses are run for the convenience of their employees. You know what you can do BOTH. If you hire proper people, you can have happy employees AND happy customers.
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### Author:  [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/36 "2009-03-18T16:44:46Z")
Most places will still seat you then. But you should be aware that they may well be out of long-cooking things like baked potatoes, ribs, that sort of thing. Bitching about them being out of stuff like that will not endear you to anyone or improve the meal or service you get.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/37 "2009-03-18T18:02:42Z")
> [@oboelady](#):
>
> When it came to my turn to order, I looked at the owner and said, “Surprise me.” He got a big smile on his face and went back and started cooking for us. .
I have a local sushi restaurant where the owner/head chef love me to do this. He gets stuck making roll after roll, etc, and likes to bust out and try new things once in a while. Yes, a few are not so great, but overall I have been very happy.
I knew one fast food guy who messed with rude dudes food.
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### Author:  [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/38 "2009-03-18T18:31:42Z")
Dad and I were in Amish country out in the middle of nowhere once in Illinois (we were on a vacation trip to see car museums) and were practically dying of hunger; we stopped at a little tiny greasy spoon / convenience store that looked pretty deserted.
The hostess said that they weren’t really open; they could feed us, but all they had was sloppy joes. I looked at Dad, and he looked at me, and I said, “Well, then, we’ll have sloppy joes.” And that’s what we did.
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### Author:  [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/39 "2009-03-18T21:08:21Z")
> [@Markxxx](#):
>
> I have had a lot of experience dealing with this.
>
> First of all, customer service must come first. If you find yourself in a situation with customers coming routinely near closing time, that means you need to alter your hours to reflect this. Otherwise you’re losing money.
>
> Many places won’t do this because they simply don’t want to. You can require employees to work overtime, of course you have to pay them, but it’s easily fixed by sending them home early the next day or simply offsetting the overtime with the income the extra meal provided.
>
> You need to do ACCURATE (emphasis on accurate) cost analysis to see if your prices cover this. If not you need to adjust it. You can’t believe the number of budgets I’ve seen for hotels/resturants which budget NO MONEY for overtime. C’mon like you are saying for an entire year you expect not ONE person to work overtime.
>
> If employees don’t like it, well get new ones. I have had lots of jobs where overtime is required. Make sure employees hired understand this is not the kind of job where you can always expect to leave on time.
>
> As for people saying you’re being a jerk, no you’re not. You have money to spend and there are businesses that say they don’t WANT IT? I used to work and have to go into overtime, I didn’t like it, but that is the way it is. I don’t like paying taxes but that’s the way it is.
>
> It always surprises me at the businesses who don’t care. We have one business with a VERY RUDE, clerk who works in the morning. I will NOT go into that store if he’s there. I walk 1 block out of my way to another store. Can you imagine how many other people are doing this? But yet you’ll keep a bad clerk.
>
> Too many businesses are run for the convenience of their employees. You know what you can do BOTH. If you hire proper people, you can have happy employees AND happy customers.
To the OP: The above is a good example of the wrong attitude to have in a restaurant. “I’m paying good money! They should cater to my every whim on pain of termination, and pretend to love it, too!”
As to you, Mark; that clerk almost certainly makes minimum wage, no tips. If he shows up on time and doesn’t steal, he’s worth more than they’re paying him. I’m sure he’s not rude to everyone, just those with a grossly disproportionate sense of entitlement. I don’t know the details of your transactions there, but I have noticed that the less people spend in a place, the more they think the entire establishment should revolve around their whims. It’s funny, but the genuinely valuable customers are almost always quite reasonable and pleasant.
Please feel free to repost the above in a new Pit thread, where I will be happy to enlighten you further.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restaurant-closes-at-10-pm-i-show-up-at-9-59-do-they-seat-me/489693/40 "2009-03-18T22:10:32Z")
> [@thetruewheel](#):
>
> As to you, Mark; that clerk almost certainly makes minimum wage, no tips. If he shows up on time and doesn’t steal, he’s worth more than they’re paying him. .
It is not the customers business or concern about how much the clerk makes. Nor do we know- Maybe he makes $100 an hour. And, no matter what they pay you, you must perfrom your duties competently. If you can’t perform competently for what they are paying you then don’t work for that amount.
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