# Resting a rifle versus not. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254 "2010-01-24T18:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/21 "2010-01-25T22:20:23Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > And an uzi in each hand? ridiculous! Well, unless you’re about to use one of them for the Wild Uzi Maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/22 "2010-01-26T00:14:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, unless you’re about to use one of them for the Wild Uzi Maneuver. Is that what Americans call the “Border Shift?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/23 "2010-01-26T00:27:26Z")
> [@LiveOnAPlane](#): > > … I’d like to point out one thing, though, on “Unforgiven” that actually made Muny’s offhand shooting believable. It was established that Muny wasn’t very good with a rifle, kinda a fish out of water type with one. … I’m not remembering that, but it is established in the beginning of the film that Munny seems to have lost his touch with a pistol, > [@](#): > > EXT. SOD HUT - DAY > > CLOSE on a Mojav coffee tin as Munny places it on the fence behind his sod hut. Munny has the Starr in his right hand and he turns and walks back toward the house 15 yards away. > Will and Penny are watching. They know something is going on, but they don’t know how to ask what it is. > Munny faces the coffee tin and solemnly extends his pistol arm straight out and carefuly sights along the barrel. > BAM! A burst of flame and a puff of black smoke from the gun. > The Mojav tin hasn’t moved. > Slowly, carefully, Munny raises the gun again and aims with great deliberation. > BAM! The coffee tin doesn’t move. > Munny shakes his head slowly in disgust and aims again. > BAM! Missed again. > Munny gives a quick sheepish glance in the direction of the children. There is a lot of smoke. He aims again and BAM! > He misses. > Munny is irritated and he aims and fires hastily and flame bursts from the gun and smoke and BAM! > The tin is unmoved. > Will looks at his feet, embarrassed, not wanting to meet his father’s eyes. > Munny stuffs the pistol in his waistband and disappears into the house. > Will and Penny look at one another nervously, wondering what’s happening. > PENNY: Did Paw used to kill folks? > Will doesn’t answer and then he looks up because Munny steps out of the house again, a sawed off Remington 10 gauge shotgun in his hands. > Munny raises the double barreled weapon to his shoulder and aims carefully and… > BARRRROOOOOM! The can flies away in pieces and some of the fence, too. Now we’re clearly supposed to come away from that scene with the impression that Will is just rusty and his eyes are getting old but, > [@](#): > > THE KID: … Was you ever scared in them days? > MUNNY: I don’t remember, Kid. I was drunk most of the time. Give me a pull on that bottle, will you? And, as we see when Will confronts Little Bill and his posse in Greely’s, a drunk Will Munny just doesn’t miss. I think we’re supposed to see clear contrast between the two Will Munnys in those two scenes. He really doesn’t want to kill Davey Bunting (or any of the other cowboys) it’s just about the money. While at Greely’s his entire purpose is killing, and nothing more. > [@](#): > > MUNNY: I ain’t like that no more, Kid. Whiskey done it as much as anythin’ I guess. (turning to The Kid) I ain’t touched a drop in ten years. My wife, she cured me of it… cured me of drink an’ wickedness. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > … the movie pretty well established that there were only 3 actual gunfighters in the whole thing - Munny, Little Bill, and English Bob. … Ned Logan too, > [@](#): > > NED: (earnestly) We ain’t bad men no more, Bill. Hell, we’re farmers. > MUNNY: (thoughtfully) Should be easy killin’ em… supposin’ they don’t run off to Texas first. > NED: (taking the pot from the stove) How long since you shot a gun at a man? (pause) Nine… ten years? > MUNNY: Eleven. > NED: Easy, huh? Hell, I don’t know that it was all that easy then… an’ we was young an’ full of beans. (pouring coffee) Bill… if you was mad at ‘em… if they done you wrong… I could see shootin’ ‘em… > MUNNY: (looking Ned in the eye) We done stuff before for money, Ned. > NED: (sitting down) Well, we thought we was doin’ it for money… (he pauses, remembering) 'Course we all know that when shooting a man while drunk it’s best to have two guns “One for each of you.” 😃 CMC fnord! [Cite](http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Image:UnforgivenSpencer1860-5.jpg) for **muldoonthief** ’s memory, still from _Unforgiven_ showing one of the shots. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/24 "2010-01-26T00:37:13Z")
Jeff Cooper once said, (in reference to shooting a rifle), “If you can get steadier, get steadier.” I do a lot of shooting on my property, and over the years have had hundreds of guests over for hunting and target practice. I am amazed at how many shooters do not to steady themselves when shooting a rifle. Certainly there are situations when no rest is available, and/or there simply is not enough time to assume a steadier position. But more often than not the shooter \*can \*steady him or herself using a variety of means, and they simply choose not to. I suspect one or more of the following reasons are responsible for this phenomenon: 1. They don’t know how to shoot from a supported position (e.g. sitting and prone). No one has ever taught them. 2. Inflated ego; they believe it’s not macho to steady their rifle. (“I’m such a good shot, I don’t \*need \*to steady my rifle!”) 3. They see people on TV routinely shooting from unsupported positions, and believe it’s the correct way to do it. A couple of tips, if I may: - There are tradeoffs. If you are in the prone position, for example, you are _very_ steady. But it takes a lot of time to get into the position, and you have limited azimuth adjustment of your muzzle and (usually) a limited view. - The most stable positions are the sitting and prone positions, since both elbows are supported. - If you are steadying the rifle using a support, always remember “soft-against-hard-against-soft-against hard.” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/25 "2010-01-26T01:00:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Jeff Cooper once said, (in reference to shooting a rifle), “If you can get steadier, get steadier.” … If it’s good enough for [The Jackal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JackFox.jpg) (and Jeff Cooper) it’s good enough for everyone! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/26 "2010-01-26T02:09:34Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > [Cite](http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Image:UnforgivenSpencer1860-5.jpg) for **muldoonthief** ’s memory, still from _Unforgiven_ showing one of the shots. Well, that definitely makes me less annoyed at the scene. There’s a chance I was watching it in an aspect ratio (16:9) that cut off the bottom of the image. But I’m not going to make any such claims, or someone will find a clip showing Clint’s whole body. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/27 "2010-01-26T03:37:26Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > the movie pretty well established that there were only 3 actual gunfighters in the whole thing - Munny, Little Bill, and English Bob. Munny stood up to get the best shot that he could. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Ned Logan too, Not at all unusual. At the most famous gunfight of them all – at the OK Corral – despite their reputations on either side only Virgil Earp had much experience in handling a weapon, and that was because he was a Civil War veteran. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/28 "2010-01-26T12:58:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is that what Americans call the “Border Shift?” 🙂 What’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/29 "2010-01-26T13:26:07Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > - If you are steadying the rifle using a support, always remember “soft-against-hard-against-soft-against hard.” Is that similar to “rest your weapon on bone, not muscle”? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/30 "2010-01-26T13:45:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What’s that? A gunfighter with two pistols switching hands between his empty and loaded weapons by throwing them from hand to hand. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/31 "2010-01-26T15:12:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m not remembering that, but it is established in the beginning of the film that Munny seems to have lost his touch with a pistol,Now we’re clearly supposed to come away from that scene with the impression that Will is just rusty and his eyes are getting old but, > And, as we see when Will confronts Little Bill and his posse in Greely’s, a drunk Will Munny just doesn’t miss. > I think we’re supposed to see clear contrast between the two Will Munnys in those two scenes. He really doesn’t want to kill Davey Bunting (or any of the other cowboys) it’s just about the money. While at Greely’s his entire purpose is killing, and nothing more. I’d say there are 3 Will Munnys in the movie. Up to when he gets the beating from Little Bill, he’s just a washed up gunfighter who is trying to get back to his glory days. He wouldn’t have been able to kill anyone at that point. After he recovers from the beating, he’s a highly talented killing machine again, but without malice. He kills Davey, but has no ill will towards him - its just a payday. He doesn’t shoot at the other cowboys, even though they’re shooting at him - he even lets them bring Davey some water. After he finds out they’ve killed Ned though - then he becomes Death incarnate, killing anyone for any reason, or no reason at all. > [@](#): > > Ned Logan too. I’d say not Ned. He’s lost what he had. He was having great fun on his adventure - riding with an old pal and getting advances from the whores. But after his first shot, he couldn’t take Davey out, even though it would have been easy for him to do so. He was done. Of course, now I have nothing to backup my assertion that English Bob was still a gunfighter. He refused to take the gun from Little Bill in the cell. So its really down to Will & Bill. The whole scene is on youtube [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPRlPazVAU&feature=related) - starts about 3:00 in. It’s clear that Will is shooting from a kneeling position. Well, that or he’s standing on one foot with his other leg bent up in the air, but that’s too silly even for Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/32 "2010-01-26T15:40:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A gunfighter with two pistols switching hands between his empty and loaded weapons by throwing them from hand to hand. Ah. No, the Wild Uzi Maneuver was something completely different. See, the first production models of the Uzi were excellent weapons, but they had a tendency to go off accidentally if you dropped them, banged them or stared at them too hard. The Israeli military of the 1950’s and 60’s decided to see this not as a bug, but as a feature, and developed a special (and completely unauthorized) use for in in close quarters battle: a soldier would take a spare Uzi, load it, cock it and put the safety on full auto, and then throw it into a room. Hopefully it would go off and start bouncing around the room like crazy, either killing the bad guys or at least scaring the crap out of them. After the magazine emptied the squad would burst it, Uzis blazing. Later versions of the Uzi had added safety features that sadly made the maneuver impossible. Still, that’s one reason someone would carry 2 Uzis - one to shoot, and one to throw. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254/33 "2010-01-27T00:34:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is that similar to “rest your weapon on bone, not muscle”? No. The stock of your rifle is hard. A tree is hard. You do not want to rest your hard rifle against the hard tree; you want something soft between them. You can rest your rifle directly on something that is soft. But if you want to rest it on something that is hard, you should put something soft between them. Even your hand (Which is soft) will work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resting-a-rifle-versus-not/526254.md?page=1)