# Restroom doors **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 11, 2021, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791 "2021-04-11T11:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/81 "2021-04-23T10:31:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Illegal? On what grounds? Oh I don’t know, on the grounds that when you pass a law against something it becomes illegal? Same as every other law in the world? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/82 "2021-04-23T17:59:06Z")
Laws have to have a rational basis, and are subject to various levels of scrutiny by the courts. How could any government justify that crap? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/83 "2021-04-23T18:08:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > **Laws have to have a rational basis** ,and are subject to various levels of scrutiny by the courts. How could any government justify that crap? - That’s _adorable_. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/84 "2021-04-23T18:11:04Z")
All I’m saying is that such a law would never stand up in court. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/85 "2021-04-23T18:18:57Z")
Oh. Well, you’re wrong. Also, _Atlas Shrugged_ is a stupid pulp fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/86 "2021-04-23T18:33:22Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I don’t know whether they’re common; but I’ve known at least one case in which a restroom was converted from men’s to unisex without removing the urinal. I know of one, too – the rest room on the top floor of the Walker Memorial at MIT used to be all male, but they made it unisex by putting enclosures around the urinals. It’s been ages since I was there. They might have completely redone it by now. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/87 "2021-04-23T18:38:18Z")
No enclosures, in the one I’m thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/88 "2021-04-23T19:15:25Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Oh. Well, you’re wrong. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/89 "2021-04-23T19:20:57Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Cite, please. What is offered without evidence may be dismissed without evidence, in this case your claim “such a law would never stand.” When you bring a cite for that, we can talk. Otherwise, you’re dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/90 "2021-04-23T19:24:33Z")
“There oughta be a law” is the lamest statement one can make. It doesn’t even qualify as an argument. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/91 "2021-04-23T19:36:57Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > “There oughta be a law” is the lamest statement one can make. It doesn’t even qualify as an argument. - So is saying laws have to have a rational basis. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/92 "2021-04-23T19:38:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > “There oughta be a law” is the lamest statement one can make. It doesn’t even qualify as an argument. I agree, it’s a lame piece of rhetoric and barely an argument. The only lamer thing I can imagine is somebody taking it seriously enough to argue against, so you’re entirely true to form here. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/93 "2021-04-23T19:46:55Z")
They do. [Rational Basis Test | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/rational_basis_test) ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/94 "2021-04-23T19:55:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > … > [@running\_coach](#): > > … You two know how this is going to go, right? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/95 "2021-04-25T16:39:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They do. > > [Rational Basis Test | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/rational_basis_test) That “rationalism test” doesn’t deal with the inherent rationality of a law. It just says that certain laws must be demonstrably relatable to the state’s interests. In this case, the state has a rationally demonstrable interest in avoiding people pissing on the floor, or of damaging their kidneys from holding their urine, or from preventable altercations by people entering the wrong restroom. Just as the state demonstrated its interest in handicapped access signage, there’s a demonstrable interest in requiring establishments to post clearly labeled restroom signage. This will of course not satisfy someone who doesn’t want the government involved in this sort of thing at all, but if your argument is that it should meet the “rational basis test”, it obviously does. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/96 "2021-04-25T17:05:09Z")
At a minimum we should adjust the laws so anyone using a restroom which lacks the official braille + universal icon + “Men” or “Women” in English signage is not liable for any mistakes in which one they choose. No charges of peeping tom, indecent exposure, stalking, etc., for any man simply entering and using any poorly labeled women’s restroom. And vice versa of course, but that’s not where the big concern about unjust prosecution comes from. Which is not meant as a get out of jail free card for bad behavior inside the wrong restroom. Merely that being in the wrong one is guaranteed to no longer be a status crime. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/97 "2021-04-25T18:26:21Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I once worked in a small office that had just one bathroom, with two stalls. > > There were two makeshift cardboard signs hanging from separate thumbtacks on the door. They were hanging on loops of string, such that you could turn them around as needed. > > One sign said “Occupied” on one side and “Vacant” on the other side. The other sign said “Shy” on one side and “Gregarious” on the other side. I once used a small gang restroom that had a dial on the door. At the top it said, “empty”. Going around clockwise, to the bottom, it said “Women who care” “Women who don’t care” “Both” And comparable indicators for men on the other side. > [@RollOutTheBarrel](#): > > A few years ago, a group of relatives and I had lunch at a restaurant none of us had been to before. Near the end of the meal, a couple members of our party went to use the restroom. They came back and said they couldn’t figure out which was the men’s and which was the women’s. A couple more of us went with them to see if we could figure it out. The restroom doors each had a drawing of a person on them. The people in the drawings were dressed similarly and both had a somewhat androgynous appearance. It also didn’t help that the hallway was dimly lit. One of them definitely looked more like a woman and one more like a man to me, though, and the others trusted my judgement. In the end we all used the restroom that we thought was appropriate. I saw a public restroom recently that just had a picture of a toilet on the door. Which actually indicated that this room would serve your needs. Yes, it was a unisex restroom. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/98 "2021-04-25T18:30:27Z")
Go before you leave the house. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/99 "2021-04-25T18:40:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > One occupant at a time unisex seems to be the preferred way to go these days. Well, yeah but in a office with lots of employees, that is super expensive. One thing I dont like is the mens room with a urinal and a toilet with no wall between them. If you have some sort of wall, then both can be used at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791/100 "2021-04-25T20:15:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > In this case, the state has a rationally demonstrable interest in avoiding people pissing on the floor Really? What is the state’s demonstrable interest in that scenario? Has any U.S. court ever ruled that “avoiding people pissing on the floor” is a rationally demonstrable interest of the state? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/restroom-doors/939791.md?page=6)