No, I’m not saying you shouldn’t…and I guess I was posting too early in the morning to really make sense. Also, this is a rather sore subject for me (due to the whole family thing).
However, not allowing for a certain degree of individual investigation in the reporting of these cases (especially those propagated by adults and older teenagers, where it might be very hard to physically prove any sort of abuse) can result in a lot of innocent people losing their position, both in their vocations and in the community.
Of course, I think that the degree to which the Church took this concept of “individual investigation” is just disgusting. I’m also not fond of the idea that anyone who’s been PROVEN a child molestor, even once, would ever in a thousand years be let near a group of children again. But I’m afraid that being “reasonably sure” in cases of child abuse sometimes turns out to be “someone accused them.”
Under the circumstances you described, you should report it…but people have to be kinda careful. I guess that’s all I was trying to say…sorry…
No need to apologise Angel. It seems that we’re pretty close in our viewpoints anyway. It’s always a good idea to make the destinction between reporting something to the authorities and allowing an accusation to go public.
I’m sorry to hear about the family thing too. That sucks.
Originally written by Associated Press ( for those in this thread who will immediately accuse me of blatant misinformation and misstatements, these are **direct quotes ) **
Let’s look at that really carefully. There is a HUGE lesson here.
Go ahead and fuck young boys, but DON’T MAKE A HABIT OF IT.
Go ahead and fuck young boys and IF you make a habit of it, DON’T BECOME NOTORIOUS ABOUT IT. Stay nice and unnotorious about it, and have a nice time.
There endeth the lesson, except for one incredibly frightnening corrolary statement. This is taken directly from the text of the letter to Priests written by the U.S. Cardinals, while they were in Rome
Oh my god. THE RAPISTS AS VICTIMS. :rolleyes:
Thank god my kids are not ever in a position to be near a priest.
Lest we think this is a problem unique to BOSTON, here we go…
The Archdiocese of NY has released sexual abuse victims from any gag orders they imposed as a term of paying them off for the priveledge of having priests rape their kids. Mighy big of em, huh? I know, I know, the timing is entirely a co-incidence. Where else?
The head of the Roman Catholic diocese on Long Island, NY appointed a former police commisioner yesterday to handle sexual abuse allegations against their priests.
Philadelphia District Attorney Lynn Abraham said she will convene a grand jury to investigate allegations of priest sexual abuse and the responst of church officials.
In Providence, R.I., attorneys ( notice the plural…) for victims of alleged sexual abuse said they have asked a judge to schedule some of their cases for trial this fall after failing to settle with the Archdiocese of Providence. ** THIRTY EIGHT** lawsuits have been filed against the diocese, alleging abuse by 11 priests and one nun.
As I’ve noted in another thread in the last week, the patterns defended here are long-standing, and aren’t going anywhere.
This thing stinks like yesterday’s diapers. It will take months if not years for any criminal case to be built against the Bishop of Boston. I’m patient, I can wait. Then again, the myriad rape victims up there in Beantown, and across the United States might not be quite so patient.
** Angel**, I might respectfully suggest that before you attack the system of State Mandated Reporting, you go to the other thread I began last week on the Bishop of Boston and in it you will find links that talk about the Mass. State Mandated Reporters laws and responsibilities.
It is not the personal choice of a Mandated Reporter to decide if maybe the accusation might not be nice. It is the law. If a person holds a job that requires them to follow the State Mandated Reporter laws, then they either follow the letter of the law, or they violate the letter of the law.
There are a few reasons why the Church shouldn’t just have a policy of “follow the guidelines of the state you’re in” . One is because, unlike the AMA or the National Association of Social Workers, the Church is dealing with deciding what some of their employees (bishops and cardinals) should do when other employees are accused of molesting children.Therefore , they want a uniform policy, not one in which an incident that would be reported if it happened in California would not be reported if it happened in NY. In addition, I have not heard of a single bishop or cardinal being arrested, nor have I heard of any law which holds them criminally responsible for the transfers or not reporting the crime to the police, so such a policy might not change a thing about how the bishops operate. And the hierarchy certainly doesn’t want that to continue. In part, because the hierarchy doesn’t want children victimized, but also in part, because the coverup ultimately brought on exactly what is was meant to avoid- a scandal. And the coverup caused far more of a scandal (IMHO) than restricting or getting rid of the priests in question immediately would have.
**Cartooniverse **
I don’t think the quote is referring to the rapists, but rather to the majority of priests who have done nothing wrong, but are paying a price anyway.
I believe that, since there is such a law, the priest or whoever heard about it should report it. For one, I’m not big on breaking any laws. For another, I think that child molesters are just about the lowest form of life there is. However, I have a few reservations simply because the two accusations that I have been aware of were false.
This relative of mine–and I’m not even giving specifics because there are a few people on this board who might know me IRL and I don’t want them to know about this–worked as a counselor at a high school. One of his female charges accused him of doing some not-sex-but-sex-related things to her. What, I don’t know. I was seven at the time, and my parents weren’t about to tell me, and, frankly, I don’t think I’d want to ask him about it even now. It was reported asap, and the police were very not-discreet about prosecuting him. After the girl admitted she made it up for some weird reason or another–I believe she was mentally disturbed or something–he’d lost his job and had to move across the state because there was still this sorta aura around his name.
I just don’t trust the police not to let things get out of hand sometimes. I’d be happy if they were discreet until they had evidence, but often they aren’t.
I suppose I don’t know very much about this, though. . .
The Pope and the Cardinals have to consider the entirety of the church and congregation as a whole. They can’t just jerk their knees in reaction to each new problem as it comes up. As such, they need to meet and figure out the best course of action. And it’s more than just “What to do with naughty Priests”… What do they tell the families of molested children? What do they do in the future to ensure that it doesn’t happen again? What grey areas may be affected by the decisions we make?
There’s not a single issue, here, but a complex web of issues, and something that looks like the “right” thing to do may end up being “wrong” in some other aspect.
Spoofe, I totally disagree. It is not wrong to prosecute very single rapist wearing a white collar.
Which part of that doesn’t sit well with you??? Don’t give me “complex web” shit, that’s pure crap and you know it. WHAT complex web?? The complex web of , " Ut oh, we keep letting these guys have their fun and soon nobody will be donating on Sundays to the plate, and we won’t have any money left to cover the fucking huge settlements we are making left right and center with the endless flow of victims and their families and before you know it our entire financial power base might erode a slight bit and Rome is highly miffed that we’ve not been able to shut up these stupid fucking victims already and keep the US Dollars flowing and just get back to business as usual" that complex web? Not so complex, is it???
Oh. Ok. Just checking. :rolleyes: It’s not a kneejerk reaction, and for the bazillionth time it has NOT JUST COME UP. Define just come up. This spring? This year? The last five years? The last 20 years? The last 1,000 years?
They are direct quotes of the AP paraphrase of the statement.
The actual statements were quoted in Sua’s thread, Hey kids! Let’s analyze the Cardinal’s Statement from Rome!. And while you are certainly permitted to put your spin on what that statement means and we all recognize that your righteous anger has no peer, it should be noted that your interpretation (based on an incomplete paraphrase) is not how others perceive the statement as I responded to Sua, here.
I do not accuse you of “blatant misinformation and misstatements,” but I will note that your anger has a tendency to filter the things you choose to quote and color your interpretation of those choices.
**True enough. My point was that I was in fact citing a written source.
I never said you did. I will say here very clearly who I was addressing. Bricker did just that, in This Related Thread from last week. Since that time, I take pains to prove that the words I am using as proof are not dragged up out of my imagination, but are in fact the words of reporters covering the story.
If my emotions color my words, then that makes me human. It sure as hell doesn’t make me 100% right ( or, 100% wrong) - but then this is the Pit. You can speak your heart as well as mind here and not have to be proven RIGHT. I’m allowed in Great Debates, I simply chose not to enter into a Debate over this topic, it is indeed too emotional to remain coldly detached and lifeless over.
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