# Retail and stores not doing well and many stores are struggle to stay open? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190 "2017-04-10T19:14:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/1 "2017-04-10T19:14:05Z")
Why is retail not doing well in Canada and stores closing in Canada? Many stores are closing in Canada and many stores are struggle to stay open. I hear retail is not doing well in the US but is worse in Canada. Stores like JC Penney, Best buy, Macy’s, Sears, K Mart, Target are not doing well. The retail market is bad in the US and Canada but worse in Canada. Many stores are closing and stores struggle to stay open. One explanation is online shopping is causing this, but E-commerce is only 6.4% of retail!!:eek::eek: So this can’t explain big reason.:eek::eek: I can see if E-commerce was at 30% or 40%. But hardly E-commerce is only 6.4% be the big factor. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/2 "2017-04-10T19:43:33Z")
It’s actually almost double your estimate: [E-Commerce Retail Sales as a Percent of Total Sales (ECOMPCTSA) | FRED | St. Louis Fed](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ECOMPCTSA) The largest retail sectors are as follows: Motor vehicle and parts - 20% Food and beverage stores - 13% Food services and drinking establishments - 11% gasoline and convenience stores - 10% Combined they make-up 54% of retail and have very little penetration from e-commerce/online shopping. Of the remaining 46% of total, e-commerce (8.3% of total) makes up 18% of it combined. That’s a large dent into many retail stores. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/3 "2017-04-10T20:34:17Z")
Yes, it’s consumer goods that are taking the local retail sales hit. Very difficult for consumables and immediate-need items like car parts to be successful online - although I do buy coffee, dog food, jam and most major repair parts that can wait (including tires) online. I just had the choice of driving a 30-mile loop to Home Depot for a new garbage disposal, or getting it from Amazon in 48 hours for the same price. I can keep poke-starting the old GD another day or so to save the hassle of the drive. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/4 "2017-04-10T20:43:00Z")
Most of the stores the OP mentioned sell electronics. That is a market with incredibly slim margins and high cost of doing business, which is why many people prefer to buy them online. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/5 "2017-04-10T21:02:09Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Most of the stores the OP mentioned sell electronics. That is a market with incredibly slim margins and high cost of doing business, which is why many people prefer to buy them online. Sorry I don’t understand are you saying clothing stores or electronic stores are the worst? More online shopping with electronic stores than clothing stores or more online shopping with clothing stores than say electronic stores? Or are they about the same. Or is it mostly online shopping books, movies, music and DVD’s than electronics or clothes. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/6 "2017-04-10T21:31:57Z")
Considering just the percentage of retail that is going online is going to under-value the disruption to local stores. Not all products have equal margin, and the people doing more shopping online are richer and more likely to buy expensive products. There’s also a downward spiral. If you used to stock, say, two products in a given category, and the higher price, higher margin one is no longer selling as well because more of those customers are online, you might have to go down to one product. But now the more affluent buyers who come in are less likely to find what they’re looking for, and they’re further driven to other sources. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/7 "2017-04-10T22:10:50Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > …the people doing more shopping online are richer and more likely to buy expensive products. I think that bar has dropped a lot in the last decade, and falls faster every year. Being online at all was once an elite privilege; having a credit card to buy online was another; being able to wait for goods, pay shipping, etc. - all more. Now that it’s cheaper, easier and faster to buy almost anything online, and things like PayPal can be used, and nearly everyone has an online portal at hand (literally)… it’s a far wider demographic. I’ve been online since there was an online, and I’ve been comfortable-to-wealthy for a while… but I would have laughed if you told me I’d be buying dog food online even two or three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/8 "2017-04-10T22:20:17Z")
heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/9 "2017-04-10T22:40:35Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … Yeah, I think failing because you’re ahead of your time is a real thing. Either the technology is not good enough yet to make the experience as seamless as it needs to be or the culture just isn’t ready for you. I think of Netflix wanting to be a streaming company from early on but having to rely on mailing DVDs until the infrastructure and technology was good enough for mass acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/10 "2017-04-11T01:01:28Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I think that bar has dropped a lot in the last decade, and falls faster every year. Being online at all was once an elite privilege; having a credit card to buy online was another; being able to wait for goods, pay shipping, etc. - all more. > > Now that it’s cheaper, easier and faster to buy almost anything online, and things like PayPal can be used, and nearly everyone has an online portal at hand (literally)… it’s a far wider demographic. It might be dropping, but I’m not sure. There’s certainly still a huge gap. I found this [article with statistics](http://www.businessinsider.com/the-surprising-demographics-of-who-shops-online-and-on-mobile-2014-6) > [@](#): > > An Experian survey found that 55% of e-commerce shoppers in the U.S. live in households with incomes above $75,000 (40% were in households earning $100,000 and above). The median household income in the U.S. is around $50,000, according to the Census. 40% of online shoppers are from households with incomes in the top 18% of the US. That’s _huge_. People buy stuff online for lots of reasons, but when I think about why I increasingly buy things online, it’s for convenience, because I’m under so much more time pressure. The richer you are, the more you’re willing to buy something right now from your phone/computer and skip the 15 minute trip to the store. Increasing access to the internet won’t change how the value proposition of the internet is higher for richer people. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/11 "2017-04-11T01:37:41Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … [Pets.com](http://Pets.com) got laughed at mostly for being a good example of the ‘look, we’re ONLINE send us money’ phenomenon - they didn’t really have a business plan, were selling most of their merchandise at an extreme loss, and were spending something like five times their revenue on advertising. There wasn’t any substance to the company, so it just fell apart. Chewy had a real business plan and only operated at a loss for a short time, and didn’t spend crazy amounts on advertising. Also they opened in 2011, so it’s really ‘the smartest idea of six years ago’! > [@Driver8](#): > > Yeah, I think failing because you’re ahead of your time is a real thing. Either the technology is not good enough yet to make the experience as seamless as it needs to be or the culture just isn’t ready for you. They really didn’t fail for being ‘ahead of their time’, they failed for spending money like crazy with no business plan and selling products at a loss while hoping sticking a ‘e-’ in front of the name of stuff made money appear. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/12 "2017-04-11T12:56:13Z")
[Interesting link right here](http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/04/10/retail-meltdown) I never would’ve come to the conclusion outlined in the link, but in thinking about it’s very plausible. I don’t know if it’s entirely true, however. The convenience of e-commerce may beckon but also think a lot of people hold out for the lowest price possible, and they’re willing to seek it in person. It’s why the Walmats and the Targets flourish in this particular landscape. I rarely shop on Amazon only because it’s easier for me to run out and physically get what I need. I do live in an urban area, though. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/13 "2017-04-11T14:08:18Z")
On the Other hand, [Duluth Trading Company,](http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/02/07/duluth-trading-open-noblesville-next-month/97593438/) who once was just catalogs and website, now has retail stores. I always prefer buying pants and shoes in person because by just going online I cant get the right size. So I think retail stores will stay but they will have to redo their product and service model. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/14 "2017-04-11T14:38:09Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … I still have the [sock puppet](http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4c1ca9ed7f8b9a836fa70c00-506-253/8-dot-coms-that-spent-millions-on-super-bowl-ads-and-no-longer-exist.jpg)! ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/15 "2017-04-11T15:11:58Z")
I’ve seen various figures for how much shopping is going online; from 5% to maybe 20%. My personal bet/feel is probably around 8-10%. This by itself would make a pinch but not the major failures we’re seeing. I write it off more to too many of the same basic stores on a theme (Rite-Aide and CVS for example) and the economy basically being in the dumper for a really extended time. Or at least we’re being told its in the dumper and changing our buying habits. And, at least in my mind, stores have always been failing. Are they actually going under at a faster rate today compared to say 1979? Or is the press hitting the failures with more ink? Something else in this I wonder about but am unsure I trust the reports out there. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/16 "2017-04-11T16:09:23Z")
I have a small online retail shop and here’s a little glimpse of the inside workings: Despite positioning my market niche to compete with Amazon as little as possible, it’s not possible to avoid it entirely. So using one product for example, I sell these (using the Amazon link to avoid appearances of spamming my shop to y’all): [https://www.amazon.com/TRIXIE-Pet-Products-Tunnel-Feeder/dp/B009WPXKUQ/ref=sr\_1\_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491926682&sr=8-1&keywords=trixie+tunnel+feeder](https://www.amazon.com/TRIXIE-Pet-Products-Tunnel-Feeder/dp/B009WPXKUQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491926682&sr=8-1&keywords=trixie+tunnel+feeder) Because I’m small, I don’t get a huge wholesale discount, just a modest one. My wholesale price (i.e. what I pay for them) for these happens to be about a dollar less than what you see Amazon selling this thing for. My guess is that due to Amazon’s size and buying power, they are getting the biggest wholesale discount, likely around $10/ea. Also due to their size, they can be profitable with a much smaller profit margin on the unit. They get those amazing discounts with the shipping companies, for example, which is how they can afford to offer so much free shipping on such a wide array of products. It’s not my customer’s business to understand these complexities, it’s my job to try to work around them in order to keep my shop in business. But I have to admit it’s a tad bit frustrating when I sell it for the best price I can afford to offer but people tell me they can get it cheaper at Amazon. Running my shop online only means that don’t have the overhead of paying rent or insurance and etc. My overhead expenses are rock bottom. Still, this problem is significant enough that it may ultimately put me out of business. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/17 "2017-04-11T17:52:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Very difficult for consumables and immediate-need items like car parts to be successful online {snip}…{snip} most major repair parts that can wait (including tires) online. That is true of almost any item - immediate needs don’t get purchased online. I do buy about 90% of my car parts on-line, though. I can get a much, much broader selection and almost always much better prices. > [@Chefguy](#): > > I still have the [sock puppet](http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4c1ca9ed7f8b9a836fa70c00-506-253/8-dot-coms-that-spent-millions-on-super-bowl-ads-and-no-longer-exist.jpg)! Banhammer! Banhammer! ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/18 "2017-04-11T18:13:00Z")
Shopping has become a miserable experience, particularly clothes and shoes shopping in “department” stores. Stores are understocked, messy. Dressing rooms are dirty and not kept tidy. Staff have no idea about what they’re selling. And department stores have responded by cutting staff! I know what brands fit me well, and I can find, say, a black skirt online in five minutes. Ditto shoes, and if I’m not sure about the size, I can order two and return either or both if they don’t work. I love [Zappos.com](http://Zappos.com). I love Lands End. > [@nightshadea](#): > > heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … [Chewy.com](http://Chewy.com) was great when my kitty (RIP, Mr. Baxter) needed prescription food and Fortiflora. I started to also order Feliway, litter, dry cat food, and litter box liners from them as the shipping was free. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/19 "2017-04-11T20:07:22Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Considering just the percentage of retail that is going online is going to under-value the disruption to local stores. > > Not all products have equal margin, and the people doing more shopping online are richer and more likely to buy expensive products. > > There’s also a downward spiral. If you used to stock, say, two products in a given category, and the higher price, higher margin one is no longer selling as well because more of those customers are online, you might have to go down to one product. But now the more affluent buyers who come in are less likely to find what they’re looking for, and they’re further driven to other sources. > [@nightshadea](#): > > heh remember when [pets.com](http://pets.com) was basically laughed into bankruptcy ? today the same idea is called [chewy.com](http://chewy.com) and its the smartest idea of the past 2 years … No we are talking about clothing stores and electronic stores closing and struggle to stay open. Not convenience stores,:eek::):smack: there are lots and lots of convenience stores. It is the clothing stores and electronic stores taking a hit in Canada. But I did not not think online shopping really took much of the retail sector of clothing stores and electronics stores. I thought most of the online shopping was mostly books, CD’s, music, movies and DVD’s Most people still like to get clothing and electronic in store than online where as most people now like to get books, CD’s, music, movies and DVD’s online. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190/20 "2017-04-11T21:00:44Z")
Amazon and Wal-Mart have been putting the hammer on retail competitors for awhile. The scary thing is in some ways they are just ramping up the pressure. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-and-stores-not-doing-well-and-many-stores-are-struggle-to-stay-open/784190.md?page=2)