# Retail Stupidity **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 9, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807 "2019-07-09T23:58:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/401 "2019-08-25T03:28:21Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > Where you the one standing in line after me? Cause if you were, you were rather rude. Did you happen to notice that the clerk just looked at it. At no time did she have my ID in her hand, and she certainly didn’t swipe it… > … Yes, and that’s the right way, but at Hacked target they were demanding to swipe or no sale, even the manager. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/402 "2019-08-25T03:32:00Z")
> [@dogbutler](#): > > It’s an accountability issue. We get fired/fined/ imprisoned if we’re wrong. If you don’t like it, get the government to change ID laws. You wont get fined/ imprisoned for failure to swipe the ID and steal all the data. But even if you do swipe the ID card, and it’s not for the person handing it to you, you can get in trouble. So swiping or scanning isnt helpful. That’s just so Target can build up their database- which was hacked. **LOOKING at the ID and CHECKING to see if that’s the right person, right DOB and if it isnt obviously fake-** that’s the right way. Swiping doesnt do anything but steal data for marketing purpose, data which was later hacked by Identity thieves. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/403 "2019-08-25T04:31:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You wont get fined/ imprisoned for failure to swipe the ID and steal all the data. Nice of you not to address the part about getting fired. :dubious: There’s all kinds of stuff customers hate that employees have to do, that they’ll get fired if they don’t do it. Don’t take it out on them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/404 "2019-08-25T05:05:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Nice of you not to address the part about getting fired. :dubious: > > There’s all kinds of stuff customers hate that employees have to do, that they’ll get fired if they don’t do it. Don’t take it out on them. I didnt. I wrote a letter to the CEO. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/405 "2019-08-25T08:35:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didnt call “employees following store policies incompetent.” the incompetent ones are the ones who can’t be trusted to LOOK at a ID and know the person is over 21. The ones that your company seems to think you all are. It’s\* your company\* calling you all incompetent, not me. No, it’s my company covering its ass. The fact that its also covers _my_ ass is just a bonus. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The policy of scanning the iD is clearly there to protect the store from incompetent staff. I think you all would be Ok by looking at the ID. Or hell, looking at a 50 ish guy and going, “Yep, he’s over 21”. Like saome store have “If you appear to be under 35, we will ask for ID”. Not a guy with greying hair and a cane. My store doesn’t \*require \*us to scan the ID of someone _obviously_ old enough to buy alcohol. Maybe Target does - I haven’t shopped at Target in years (in part because my store sells pretty much everything Target does, and I get an employee discount at my store). If someone young is a regular customer that I remember/know and I know they are over 21 (or over 18 for some items) I don’t have to ask for ID. And we don’t scan passports because there isn’t a way for us to do so, but we certainly do take them as ID. Maybe you could start carrying your passport for that purpose? As for hair color - have you noticed how many kids these days are dyeing their hair grey? And how many old ladies are dyeing theirs pink, purple, green, etc.? > [@](#): > > And even if I pay in cash, i still cant buy stuff if they insist on swiping my ID. But if you pay with a card or smartphone or those new-fangled magic watches the store is still getting information on you whether your ID is swiped/scanned or not. If you don’t want to give any data the only solution is to use old-fashioned cash, which can’t be hacked (although it can be counterfeited, so examine your bills). > [@DrDeth](#): > > I have no problem with ID being checked. It’s a good idea. It’s ID being swiped and all the data being entered into their system. And it’s not paranoia as not only have I shown that Identity thieves can steal your ID from that data, but in the case of Target, their date has been breached no less that three times. Paranoia is when you are worried about something unusual happening to you. Risk management is when that thing has not only happened to millions of people, but has happened multiple times. > [Target to pay $18.5M for 2013 data breach that affected 41 million consumers](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/05/23/target-pay-185m-2013-data-breach-affected-consumers/102063932/) > _Retail giant Target will pay an $18.5 million multistate settlement, the largest ever for a data breach, to resolve state investigations of the 2013 cyber attack that affected more than 41 million of the company’s customer payment card account… Using the credentials to exploit weaknesses in Target’s system, the attackers gained access to a customer service database, installed malware on the system and captured full names, phone numbers, email addresses, payment card numbers, credit card verification codes, and other sensitive data._ The underlined stuff is NOT on your ID. Target is getting that from somewhere else… like your credit/debit card. Or store-specific apps. In fact, ALL of the data mentioned can be captured when you use a payment card or app. So your assumption that it’s the swiping of your ID card for age verification purposes is where all this data is coming from would seem to have a certain large flaw. In fact, your cite makes it sound like it was a breach of the store credit card data. > [@DrDeth](#): > > _Along with affecting 41 million customer payment card accounts, the breach affected contact information for more than 60 million Target customers._ > > When it happens to over \*\*FORTY ONE MILLION \*\*people- and _multiple times_, it’s no longer paranoia. Sounds more like a reason to not shop at Target rather than to obsesses about how retail clerks verify your age for legal purposes. > [@flatlined](#): > > **Seanette** I don’t think the cash register demanded ID, I think the clerk just glanced at the bottle, saw something that looked like wine and asked for ID because that was how she was trained…or maybe she was running on autopilot. No reason to get into that conversation when someone has made a mistake. Some of the sparkling grape juice bottles _do_ look a great deal like the bottles for sparkling wine. There are also several brands of root beer packaged to look like alcoholic beer. On the flip side, the no-alcohol-on-Sunday-morning laws trigger for “non-alcohol” beer and “malt beverages”. We also - by state law - can not sell the “non-alcohol” beers to people under 21. Sorry, kid, I can not sell you that O’Doul’s, you have to be over 21 in this state to buy it. I don’t make the rules. Any 18 year old in this state is old enough to vote so if they don’t like it they need to get a few thousand or more of their like-minded buddies together and lobby for change in Indianapolis. > [@dogbutler](#): > > It’s an accountability issue. We get fired/fined/ imprisoned if we’re wrong. If you don’t like it, get the government to change ID laws. ^ And, once again, this. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/406 "2019-08-25T10:47:04Z")
I don’t think I have ever handed over my license and had it swiped, for any purchase, ever. Where is this happening and for what purchases? I just open my wallet and they look at it, occasionally asking me to verify the date. Granted, I am WELL over the minimum age and I look it, but in certain states like TN everyone is carded (for alcohol at least) no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/407 "2019-08-25T19:17:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > … > > As for hair color - have you noticed how many kids these days are dyeing their hair grey? And how many old ladies are dyeing theirs pink, purple, green, etc.? > … > > The underlined stuff is NOT on your ID. Target is getting that from somewhere else… like your credit/debit card. Or store-specific apps. In fact, ALL of the data mentioned can be captured when you use a payment card or app. So your assumption that it’s the swiping of your ID card for age verification purposes is where all this data is coming from would seem to have a certain large flaw. In fact, your cite makes it sound like it was a breach of the store credit card data. > Sounds more like a reason to not shop at Target rather than to obsesses about how retail clerks verify your age for legal purposes. > …And, once again, this. If you cant tell a 20 yo from a 50 yo, you have no business being in retail. Or even in public. Yes, but _other sensitive data._ is, and yes, they captured CC data, customer data and Dr license data, from which they got DrLic # and DoB. And no government agency requires that the ID be scanned. For now the 10th time, I have no issues with a OD being checked, just when it is scanned and the data stored in a unsafe manner. So stop trying to make this somehow I am against ID being checked, that’s a total falsehood . The laws dont have to change. IDs can & should be checked. ID should never be scanned or swiped. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/408 "2019-08-25T19:19:08Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I don’t think I have ever handed over my license and had it swiped, for any purchase, ever. Where is this happening and for what purchases? > t. At Target, unless they have changed their policies recently, and wherever **Broomstick** works. > **[Cyber security experts caution consumers when retailers scan ID for alcohol...](https://okcfox.com/news/local/cyber-security-experts-be-wary-when-retailers-scan-id-for-alcohol-purchases)** > > With the state's new alcohol laws going into effect last week, grocery stores can now sell beer and wine. Some of those retailers are scanning your driver's license when you do buy alcohol to verify you're over 21, but that could be giving them... \*Some of those retailers are scanning your driver’s license when you do buy alcohol to verify you’re over 21, but that could be giving them access to your personal information. The bar code on the back of your license is an electronic copy of everything that’s on the front — your name, address, birthday, height, weight, and driver’s license number. If that information falls in the wrong hands, you could be at risk. “Anything you scan anything electronically, you want to be concerned because you don’t know where the data’s going, how they’re storing it, where they’re sending it to,” said Isaac Elliott, a senior security engineer at Alias Forensics.\* ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/409 "2019-08-25T19:33:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If you cant tell a 20 yo from a 50 yo, you have no business being in retail. Or even in public. The problem isn’t, of course, telling 20 from 50. It’s telling 18 from 25, or 20 from 30. The “Age 40 and under” rule in this state is to give retail drones a safety zone so people can’t get pissy because some youthful looking 30 year old decides to pitch a fit because she’s asked for ID (not that that stops some people). If you look under 40 we can card you. Actually, legally, we can card you even if your age is in the triple digits but we agree that’s sort of ridiculous. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And no government agency requires that the ID be scanned. You are correct. The GOVERNMENT does not require it. However, some retail stores do. You are free to not patronize stores with that practice, but if you do go into such a store don’t take out your ire on the workers who have zero control over store policies. > [@DrDeth](#): > > For now the 10th time, I have no issues with a OD being checked, just when it is scanned and the data stored in a unsafe manner. I got it the first time. I get it. However, _if you shop at certain stores they will ask to scan and/or swipe your ID_. This is not something the cashier or service desk person has any input into. If that is the store policy then that is what the employees pretty much have to do to keep their jobs, and they value their jobs more than your 30 seconds of upset. Particularly if their management is going to back them up on the practice. If you don’t want your ID scanned/swiped/touched _don’t shop at those stores_. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The laws dont have to change. IDs can & should be checked. ID should never be scanned or swiped. Until the laws change to forbid it stores will continue to want to scan or swipe your ID. It is completely legal for them to make that request. They will continue to make that request. Almost no one protests, so they have no incentive to change the practice. Again, bitch to corporate headquarters if you’re not happy about it. Taking it out on the retails clerks and cashiers will do nothing whatsoever - other than make people unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/410 "2019-08-25T19:41:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > … > > Again, bitch to corporate headquarters if you’re not happy about it. Taking it out on the retails clerks and cashiers will do nothing whatsoever - other than make people unhappy. And again\* for the tenth time\*, i didnt bitch to the clerk, i complained to the manager and wrote a letter to the CEO. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/411 "2019-08-25T20:43:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If I recall correctly, Meijers has a little plaque of sorts by their checkout saying something like “We reserve the right to ID customers who look under 40” or some such so their policy is not in any way secret. If you do not like the store policies you are free to shop elsewhere I don’t object to this. If you had good reading comprehension, I said I object to allowing them to require me to remove my ID and scanning it. Not to the point where I’ve abandoned my cart – although I support others’ decisions to do so – and not a frequency to give up shopping at Meijer/Meijer’s. And, importantly, cashiers have discretion. There’s no fucking way I’m under 40, let alone under 21. The rare cashier that cards me is an asshole, not someone who’s overly scared of inadvertently breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/412 "2019-08-25T21:25:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And again\* for the tenth time\*, i didnt bitch to the clerk, i complained to the manager and wrote a letter to the CEO. Complaining to the manager does no good whatsoever, either - they have zero say in the matter. For that matter, at my company the freakin’ _store director_ has no say in it. That policy is set by corporate headquarters. Complaining on the local level is wasted air. Rinse and repeat for every other big box store. If you want something like that changed you have to direct your comments to headquarters. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/413 "2019-08-25T21:27:00Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > And, importantly, cashiers have discretion. There’s no fucking way I’m under 40, let alone under 21. The rare cashier that cards me is an asshole, not someone who’s overly scared of inadvertently breaking the law. Oh, I get that, too - I don’t card people obviously old enough to buy booze. I’m not an asshole (at least not while on the job - I confess to occasional lapses otherwise). There are certainly assholes out there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/414 "2019-08-25T21:55:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Complaining to the manager does no good whatsoever, either - they have zero say in the matter. For that matter, at my company the freakin’ _store director_ has no say in it. That policy is set by corporate headquarters. Complaining on the local level is wasted air. Rinse and repeat for every other big box store. > > If you want something like that changed you have to direct your comments to headquarters. Altho that is true, often a manager can override a system. Hmm, do you think the\*\* CEO \*\*might have a say?:rolleyes: _“…and wrote a letter to the CEO.”_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/415 "2019-08-25T22:00:16Z")
And clearly Broomstick, you wont get fired unless you scan every single ID- since you have said : _I don’t card people obviously old enough to buy booze_ and H_onestly, more than half the time it doesn’t even work that well and we have to resort to the old Eyeball Mark I but store policy is that we at least try to scan it first._ And PLEASE stop saying that I need to stop giving the clerk grief, since I have said \*over and over and over and over \*I did not do so. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/416 "2019-08-25T22:15:26Z")
Since when did this thread become the **DrDeth/Broomstick Show** , with each wanting the last word? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/417 "2019-08-25T22:46:13Z")
**Moderator Note** **DrDeth** and **Broomstick** , the two of you are hijacking this entire thread. Stop the back and forth bickering. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/418 "2019-08-25T23:13:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m not an asshole (at least not while on the job - I confess to occasional lapses otherwise). Hello, friend. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/419 "2019-08-26T00:08:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807/420 "2019-08-26T09:04:37Z")
What is it with people not reading signs? Yet again I had to open up a lottery vending machine to retrieve a bill for someone who inserted it in a machine with an “Out Of Order” sign on it. Taped _across_ the insertion slot. So not only did the person NOT read the sign, they had to physically remove it from the machine to put their money in. Not only do we have a second lottery vending machine identical to the first, the service desk also sells lottery tickets. But no, this person has to use _this particular_ machine. (I’ve discovered gamblers can be quite superstitious - some regard a particular machine as “lucky”.) Despite the Out Of Order sign. Taped across the bill slot. Have also had people try to force money through the slot where the printed lotto tickets come out. Oddly enough, it’s only the native English speakers who do this - I can’t ever recall needing to rescue money in this situation for people who speak English as a second language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retail-stupidity/836807.md?page=22)