# Retaliatory tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322 "2025-01-24T04:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/341 "2025-04-03T18:01:01Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > The Heard and McDonald Islands are on the list. They’re uninhabited apart from seals and penguins. It’s about time those stupid fish eaters started paying their share. But I’m curious as to why an NHL team is living there and why they have to pay a tariff. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/342 "2025-04-03T18:08:00Z")
Not to mention tariffs on uninhabited islands. Arguably not much impact, but definitely stupid. > **[Trump imposes tariffs on uninhabited Heard and McDonald Islands near Antarctica](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/03/donald-trump-tariffs-antarctica-uninhabited-heard-mcdonald-islands)** > > Australian prime minister surprised after remote external territories – including islands home to penguins – targeted by US president Brian ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/343 "2025-04-03T18:10:56Z")
Even if our dollar still had value there ain’t much reason to go. (Normal link followed by same limited gift link). Upshot: Four million fewer Canadian tourist visits projected. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2025/04/03/canada-travel-decline-united-states/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2025/04/03/canada-travel-decline-united-states/) [https://wapo.st/4iNyT7z](https://wapo.st/4iNyT7z) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/344 "2025-04-03T18:16:35Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I agree that this is a brilliant coining. Well it took 9 years, but finally I get the kudos I deserve 😁 > [@Jas09](#): > > I guess the pipe-dream scenario is that somehow all of the companies that have outsourced production to Vietnam (for example) will decide instead to make their shoes in the US, with US labor laws, and US labor rates, and US environmental protections and all of those shoe-making jobs will pay so well that the US labor market will explode and the industrial middle class of the 1950s and 60s will come roaring back to life. A good summary, but don’t forget also that it will mean other countries importing American shoes and getting the deficit down. It’s an exercise for the reader how manufacturing that requires lots of high-paying jobs can result in cheap goods, or if just everyone will buy american regardless of how expensive they are. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/345 "2025-04-03T18:23:51Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I do not understand the math of the formula, but that’s apparently OK I read the explanation of the formula, and it was pretty much pure cargo cult science. It was written in the style of a mathematical or physics proof, but really only using the mouth noises. It’s meant to sound impressive to people who don’t understand math, but to real scientists and mathematicians, it’s obvious nonsense. Trying to come up with a fancy way to calculate (Y-X))/Y, where Y is US imports and X is US exports. And then they ignore it if they don’t get an answer they like, such as when the trade deficit favours the US. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/346 "2025-04-03T18:30:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > > [@JacobSwan](#): > > > > The Heard and McDonald Islands are on the list. They’re uninhabited apart from seals and penguins. > > It’s about time those stupid fish eaters started paying their share. But I’m curious as to why an NHL team is living there and why they have to pay a tariff. The Seals haven’t been in the NHL since 1976. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/347 "2025-04-03T18:38:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A good summary, but don’t forget also that it will mean other countries importing American shoes and getting the deficit down. It could also mean some countries just dropping US sales completely, at least for some products. If I’m a country with a 20% trade deficit, where 20% of my trade is in Product A, which doesn’t employ many people, and 80% in Product B, which does employ lots of people, it would make sense to just drop Product A from US trade, and wipe out that trade deficit, and thus the justifications for these tariffs. I’d get together with the Product A people, and offer them various incentives to play along, combined with an appeal to patriotism. Help them find alternative customers, subsidize those new markets for the first several years, offer re-training if they need to lay people off, or grants and loans to help them re-tool for a different product if they don’t think the rest of the world will buy that much Product A, stuff like that. Just let the Americans do without. Hell, I’m half-tempted to encourage every country and/or company that has less than, say, 10% of their sales to the US to just do this - Drop The USA. 10% is a big enough chunk that the US will notice, but small enough that most companies could absorb it, particularly if you consider the offsetting benefit of not having to worry about complying with these new US rules, which will likely shift under your feet quite often. Just wash your hands of the whole mess. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/348 "2025-04-03T18:58:44Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > A good summary, but don’t forget also that it will mean other countries importing American shoes and getting the deficit down. > > It could also mean some countries just dropping US sales completely, at least for some products. If I’m a country with a 20% trade deficit, where 20% of my trade is in Product A, which doesn’t employ many people, and 80% in Product B, which does employ lots of people, it would make sense to just drop Product A from US trade, and wipe out that trade deficit, and thus the justifications for these tariffs. It’s good you understood that by “the deficit” I meant “trade deficits with specific countries”; I didn’t phrase that well at all. And agree that other countries could totally play with these numbers, but bear in mind we’re in fantasy land with all of this. For example, the US actually has a trade _surplus_ in goods with the UK (it’s different with services, but services aren’t part of this round of tariffs). It didn’t matter – ✨_Hocus Pocus numbers to imply the UK is taking advantage of the US_ ✨ ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/349 "2025-04-03T19:01:53Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And agree that other countries could totally play with these numbers, but bear in mind we’re in fantasy land with all of this. Which is part of why I’m advocating just dropping as much US trade as you can afford. It’s not worth the headaches of trying to keep up with the manbaby’s latest tantrum tariffs. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/350 "2025-04-03T19:08:45Z")
I, and @Jas09 (and others) have mentioned that US labor rates, labor _laws,_ and environmental protections are surely far in excess of what current tariffs will cost. IMHO, the pain (where most American companies will leap into action and start buying raw land on which to build their Taj Mahal factories) is still a whole lot farther down the road. At least, so far. And getting tariffs high enough to make this pencil would be like increasing the amperage being supplied to the jumper cables … that are being gingerly applied to the sensitive parts of the US consumer’s anatomy (ie, the wallet). Much in the same way as rising commodity prices can make certain extraction methods economically viable that weren’t before, as a former Corporate VP, as I’m looking at _all_ the factors involved in ‘reshoring’ my manufacturing to the US, I’m figuring out what % of my ‘labor’ I can _possibly_ automate. Because the cost of automation can be amortized over quite a long time and is a good hedge against the quixotic notion of increasing labor costs and rising standards of living. I would expect any of these new Trump Casino Factories would have far less parking than one might otherwise imagine. And Trump would have to do what he’s surely just _aching_ to do anyway: eliminate nearly all environmental regulations that become significant line items on the Corporate Cost of Goods spreadsheet. Make America Third World!! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/351 "2025-04-03T19:22:28Z")
All of the major news sites have the markets plunging as their main story. Out of curiosity, I went to Fox News and the main story was about how all countries were caving to Trumps bold move. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/352 "2025-04-03T19:31:28Z")
Top headline at [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) right now: > [@](#): > > Dem rep offers rare praise for Trump, vows to help work on key part of tariff plan The “Dem rep” is Jared Golden from Maine, whose district only gave went 54 percent for Trump, 44 percent for Harris. I believe his district is the most heavily GOP of any held by a Democrat, so Golden has to talk like this or lose his job..Simply not news. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/353 "2025-04-03T19:39:56Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > And Trump would have to do what he’s surely just _aching_ to do anyway: eliminate nearly all environmental regulations that become significant line items on the Corporate Cost of Goods spreadsheet. > > Make America Third World!! This. How to make manufacturing in the US more appealing? Cut the red tape of environmental regulations, labor laws, safety regulations… ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/354 "2025-04-03T20:45:44Z")
Yeah! Get those kids back into the textile factories. Their little fingers are great for delicate work ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/355 "2025-04-03T20:49:04Z")
That’s not even a joke – lots of states are loosening up their child labor laws to try to make up for the migrant shortages ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/356 "2025-04-03T21:12:10Z")
(Y-X)/Y = (Y^2-X^2)/Y(Y+X) = 🙈φ(Y^2-X^2)/φY(Y+X)🙈 = sin²x + cos²x \* [-(e^iπ)] \* 🙈φ(Y^2-X^2)/φY(Y+X)🙈 = ( tan ξ ) / ξ (as ξ approaches 0) \* the above… ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/357 "2025-04-03T21:20:50Z")
Show off! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/358 "2025-04-03T21:36:55Z")
Yep. It’s also a great way to crank up the profit on for-profit prisons. Nobody’s ever cared how little prison work pays. We just need to incarcerate more people, for longer. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/359 "2025-04-03T21:38:08Z")
Just sayin’…. They barely tried. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/360 "2025-04-03T21:39:33Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > [Treasury Secretary Bessent says the American dream is not about 'access to cheap goods'](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/06/treasury-secretary-bessent-says-the-american-dream-is-not-about-access-to-cheap-goods.html) > > > “Access to cheap goods is not the essence of the American dream,” Bessent said during a speech to the Economic Club of New York. “The American Dream is rooted in the concept that any citizen can achieve prosperity, upward mobility, and economic security. For too long, the designers of multilateral trade deals have lost sight of this.” At a 10,000 foot view, there’s something to that statement. However, 1) it’s not clear why the _Republican party_ should be the one to be concerned about reversing income inequality when there’s _a whole other party_ just for promoting that cause, and 2) this is sort of like solving your problem with fruit flies by burning the house down, rather than by throwing away the old fruit on the counter. You can make upward mobility easier through things like the estate tax, minimum wage increases, IRS funding increases, etc. There’s no big mystery to this, and it’s not clear why - of all possible paths - you’d choose this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=19)