# Retaliatory tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322 "2025-01-24T04:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/401 "2025-04-04T23:08:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But, in general, the goal is to have tariffs and make significant tax revenue from them on the long term, reducing military spending to try and rein in government spending. I have seen no evidence of that, cite please? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/402 "2025-04-04T23:15:59Z")
> **[House GOP Bill Aims to Abolish the IRS and Rewrite the Tax Code](https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/bill-aims-to-abolish-the-irs-for-consumption-tax)** > > The stability of the IRS is crumbling as the U.S. presidency changes hands. > **[Trump loves the Gilded Age and its tariffs. It was a great time for the rich...](https://apnews.com/article/trump-tariffs-gilded-age-mckinley-grover-cleveland-1592dab80ad7159266db51b5baa774b6)** > > In President Donald Trump’s idealized framing, the United States was at its zenith in the 1890s. The Republican has said repeatedly, “We were at our richest from 1870 to 1913. > **[Trump's Latest Tax Plan: No Tax If You Earn Less Than $150,000 | Bankrate](https://www.bankrate.com/taxes/trumps-latest-tax-proposal-no-taxes-for-those-earning-less-than-150000/)** > > President Trump wants to slash taxes for people who earn less than $150,000, according to U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. > **[Hegseth wants Pentagon to cut 8% from defense budget for each of the next 5...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hegseth-pentagon-8-percent-cuts-for-next-5-years/)** > > Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has told the Pentagon to find $50 billion in programs to cut this year, to redirect funds to President Trump's priorities. > **[Army Planners Are Weighing Force Reductions of Up to 90,000 Active-Duty Soldiers](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/04/03/army-mulling-dramatic-reduction-of-tens-of-thousands-of-troops.html)** > > The Army is quietly considering a sweeping reduction of up to 90,000 active-duty troops, a move that underscores mounting fiscal pressures at the Pentagon and a broader shift in military strategy away from Europe and counterterrorism. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/403 "2025-04-04T23:27:08Z")
Ah, the first point (tax revenue) I was aware of, but didn’t consider it even remotely practical (and still don’t, more like yet another self-manufactured “emergency” pretext), but I was unaware of the second. Which… well, why am I not surprised in light of Trump’s treatment and attitude towards the military. Though that’s absolutely more for the Shadenfreude thread. Thank you for the cites, that clears up my confusion, much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/404 "2025-04-04T23:36:52Z")
Apparently idiocracies aren’t conducive to strong economies … > US stocks were battered by a steep sell-off Friday after [China retaliated](https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/04/business/china-us-tariffs-retaliation-hnk-intl) against the United States for President Donald Trump’s tariffs in a tit-for-tat that escalates a global trade war. > > The Dow plunged by 2,231 points, or 5.5%. The broader S&P 500 was 5.97% lower. The tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite was 5.82% lower. > > The Nasdaq closed in a bear market for the first time since 2022, down more than 20% from its record high in December. The Orange Peril was also quoted as saying he “couldn’t care less” if car prices rose as much as $10K on average. > **[Dow plunges 2,200 points as tariff tumult rocks markets | CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/04/investing/stock-market-dow-tariffs/index.html)** > > US stocks were battered by a steep sell-off Friday after China retaliated against the United States for President Donald Trump’s tariffs in a tit-for-tat that escalates a global trade war. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/405 "2025-04-05T00:12:36Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Thank you for the cites, that clears up my confusion, much appreciated. It might also be worth paying attention to: > **[Social dividend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dividend)** > > The social dividend is the return on the natural resources and capital assets owned by society in a socialist economy. The concept notably appears as a key characteristic of market socialism, where it takes the form of a dividend payment to each citizen derived from the property income generated by publicly owned enterprises, representing the individual's share of the capital and natural resources owned by society. > Although the social dividend concept has not yet been applied on a large scale, ... > **[Trump says he'll consider DOGE dividend checks. Economists say such payments...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/musk-trump-doge-dividend-check-refund-taxpayers-economists/)** > > President Trump said his administration is considering dividend checks based on savings found by DOGE. Economists are skeptical. > **[Why Andrew Yang and Elon Musk Are Wrong About the Urgent Need for Universal...](https://reason.org/commentary/why-andrew-yang-and-elon-musk-are-wrong-about-the-urgent-need-for-universal-basic-income/)** > > Just as the industrial revolution simultaneously eliminated agricultural jobs and created factory jobs, future economic transformations may well create new occupations we have yet to imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/406 "2025-04-05T00:57:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve seen credible speculation based on which tiny countries got on the list and which did not that Trump got his list from chatGPT which used internet top level domains (a country code like ascension island is .ac) to give a list of countries. I wonder if there is some degree of malicious compliance going on here. Do some of the staffers who were tasked with drawing up the order know just how silly this is and deliberately tanked it? And Trump would be too stupid/demented to ever realize it. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/407 "2025-04-05T01:17:46Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > I wonder if there is some degree of malicious compliance going on here. Do some of the staffers who were tasked with drawing up the order know just how silly this is and deliberately tanked it? And Trump would be too stupid/demented to ever realize it. Doubt it. The person tasked probably was just doing what they were told and/or lacked deep geographical knowledge.I suspect they got their raw data from here, and it shows tiny trade amounts with those islands: > **[International Trade](https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c6029.html)** Tiny dollar amounts should have been a signal that there is no real trading relationship. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/408 "2025-04-05T01:29:34Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m thinking other countries are planning to negotiate with Trump the same way a parent negotiates with a toddler holding its breath. There will be no negotiating. These tariffs are permanent. And amount to a BIG, BEAUTIFUL DEAL! Haven’t you all noticed how supercharged the US economy is right now?!?!? > **[Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)](https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/114282305980898453)** > > Big business is not worried about the Tariffs, because they know they are here to stay, but they are focused on the BIG, BEAUTIFUL DEAL, which will SUPERCHARGE our Economy. Very important. Going on right now!!! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/409 "2025-04-05T02:34:35Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > [Social dividend - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dividend) Isn’t that in effect what’s done in Alaska with revenues from energy and mineral extraction? > **[Alaska Permanent Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund)** > > The Alaska Permanent Fund (APF) is a constitutionally established permanent fund managed by a state-owned corporation, the Alaska Permanent Fund Corporation (APFC). It was established in Alaska in 1976 by Article 9, Section 15 of the Alaska State Constitution under Governor Jay Hammond and Attorney General Avrum Gross. From February 1976 until April 1980, the Department of Revenue Treasury Division managed the state's Permanent Fund assets, until, in 1980, the Alaska State Legislature cr As of ... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/410 "2025-04-05T02:37:45Z")
Yes. > **[Trump is making plans for a sovereign wealth fund. Alaska already has one,...](https://www.aol.com/us-considering-sovereign-wealth-fund-162352640.html)** > > Trump's cabinet might have a model in Alaska's Permanent Fund, which disperses checks to Alaska residents. Trump is, at the end of the day, just a guy that was gifted wealth by someone who knew how to build it. He’s the original Welfare Queen and, as such, he thinks that’s the way everyone should live. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/411 "2025-04-05T02:39:45Z")
But… but… that fund is SOCIALISM!!! How can any right-thinking upstanding patriotic self-reliant Alaskan accept a socialist government handout??? ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/412 "2025-04-05T02:41:27Z")
Who wins a trade war ??? > As of February 2025, China’s foreign exchange reserves totaled US$3.227 **trillion** , > > United States Foreign Exchange Reserves was measured at 35.2 USD **billion** in Jan 2025, > ☕ Maybe China should call its note > [@](#): > > As of December 2024, China holds approximately $759 billion in U.S. debt, making it the second-largest foreign holder of U.S. Treasury securities, after Japan. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/413 "2025-04-05T02:46:36Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > But… but… that fund is SOCIALISM!!! How can any right-thinking upstanding patriotic self-reliant Alaskan accept a socialist government handout??? It appears that the ‘’‘’‘plan’‘’‘’ here is that the US government invests in corporations and the American people become something like share holders but don’t confuse that with . . . SOCIALISM!!! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/414 "2025-04-05T03:18:06Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > There will be no negotiating. These tariffs are permanent. And amount to a BIG, BEAUTIFUL DEAL! Haven’t you all noticed how supercharged the US economy is right now?!?!? > > [Truth Social](https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/114282305980898453) Also today: [Trump signals possible tariff deal with Vietnam](https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/global-trends/trump-signals-possible-tariff-deal-with-vietnam-after-productive-call/articleshow/119987190.cms) No one knows what the tariff rates will be next year, next month, next week, or tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/415 "2025-04-05T03:18:10Z")
Apparently the difference between Leftist politics and Rightist politics is the letter you put after the name. Socialism (D) is much different from Socialism (R). ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/416 "2025-04-05T03:21:03Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > No one knows what the tariff rates will be next year, next month, next week, or tomorrow. The Very Stable Genius has determined that is how you create a Very Stable Economy. Anyone else tired of all the winning? We are all going to be multi-millionaires soon. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/417 "2025-04-05T03:41:49Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > We are all going to be multi-millionaires soon. I’m looking forward to $100,000 loaves of white bread, 'cause you know it’s gonna be so much better than $1.00 loaves of white bread! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/418 "2025-04-05T04:13:36Z")
@Sage_Rat: Republican are driven by tribalism and dominance displays more than fealty to free-market economics. That’s the through line. Libertarianism in practice was never popular except as a way to preen. You are adding ideological infrastructure where little is needed. Josh Marshall, gifted: [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/wtaf-is-going-on-in-search-of-the-plan-behind-trumps-global-economic-crisis/sharetoken/8223fcfe-097b-40a5-88fc-d0631d915707](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/wtaf-is-going-on-in-search-of-the-plan-behind-trumps-global-economic-crisis/sharetoken/8223fcfe-097b-40a5-88fc-d0631d915707) > But the whole theory has a much bigger problem. We all know there is a persistent desire, need, insistence on figuring out the plans behind Donald Trump’s seeming chaos. But that whole enterprise is flawed. There is no more plan here than a giant worm consuming everything in its path has. It eats and it moves forward. That’s all there is. What you have is a man who can only understand relationships through the prism of domination. There’s the dominating and the dominated. And you want to be the first and not the second. He also thinks countries can only be great and rich if you make a lot of heavy industrial products. That’s where the thinking stops. There’s a lot of grievance and a general nostalgia about the 1950s. But that’s really where the thinking stops. There is no thinking really. There’s a set of impulses. I mean c’mon. Nobody is clear about the underlying plan, and the overwhelming probability is there is no underlying plan, just allegiance to a mad king: > Is the plan to have permanent tariffs? Are these meant as the basis of some kind of negotiation? Are we going to have blanket tariffs as the basis of a system of corruption in which favored industries and companies gain exemptions in exchange for fealty and cash? (So, countries as universities and law firms?) Is the idea just to replace income taxes with tariff income and fundamentally shift taxes to the middle and working classes? Four possible paths are listed and you can find admin claimants for each one. Eventually we’ll blunder into some combination of the above, but it’s not like it reflects any longstanding ideology, other than a fondness of plutocratic tax cuts and magical thinking that everything will work out. The business class showed terrible judgment when they lined up behind Trump, indicating that their political judgment was equally terrible in the past, just with less intense consequences on the country _and their own wealth_. ETA: We’ll only get hyperinflation if the Federal Reserve is corrupted. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/419 "2025-04-05T04:14:49Z")
With Messiah Trump that one loaf of $100,000 bread, along with a couple cheap ass fish, will be able to feed at least a couple, maybe up to a dozen people. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2025, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/420 "2025-04-05T04:44:40Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > No one knows what the tariff rates will be next year, next month, next week, or tomorrow. > > The Very Stable Genius has determined that is how you create a Very Stable Economy. > > Anyone else tired of all the winning? We are all going to be multi-millionaires soon. Indeed we are. Except that with the inflationary pressures created by ever-escalating tariffs, $1 million will be worth about what $10 is worth today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=22)